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Member
Posts: 45
Location: Mead, WA | Hi,I've gotten a lot from this forum, having gone through at least 10 pages. I need to ask some questions about a new living quarters horse trailer that I would like to buy. Unfortunately, the nearest dealers are 2+ hours away, so that makes things difficult. At some point I will make the drive to look first hand, but for now I've narrowed my search to a 3 horse gooseneck and these 3 brands:Elite MustangSundowner Horizon (basic model) or Select Series (higher end model)Charmac Legacy (the higher end model)Obviously the Elite will be the most and Charmac least expensive. The Elite has an aluminum floor; the Charmac Legacy has a Rumber floor. The Charmac/Elite dealer told me Sundowners were "overpriced". She also told me the Charmac was slightly better quality than Featherlite (which is what my 3 h b.p. is). Charmac bought out the (now out of business) Classic Trailer designs and is marketing them under their Legacy Series. I am pricing all of these, so perhaps that will narrow my search. If Sundowner is mid way in quality and mid way in price between the Elite and Charmac, that would be my choice. I am not hard on trailers, but I like quality that will last.In terms of l.q. length, I am torn between a 6' short wall and an 8' short wall. Like everyone, I like the amenities you can put in a larger l.q., but I'm concerned about length because I plan on trail head camping. I am used to hauling a 3 horse bumper pull and it is no problem backing, parking, etc. Not having experience with a gooseneck, I'm wondering what it will be like hauling a 23' (8' shortwall) trailer? Is this a reasonable thing? Will I get used to this just as I got used to the 3 horse b.p.? In the beginning even that freaked me out with its length! If I had to, I could squeeze the essentials (toilet, shower, fridge, stove) into the 6' short wall and keep the deck length under 20', but I'd really like to add a separate sink in the bathrm. I do plan to keep my b.p. for local rides and tight places.Ideas, suggestions, advice gratefully received!d2allen | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 714
 
Location: Minnesota | We've gradually moved up from a 16' BP to a 4H stock with 4'dressing room GN, 3H slant w/ 4' weekender, 4H w/ 5'LQ, 3H w/ 8' LQ to the current Elite 3H with 12' Cowboy Classic LQ. You will find that the GN is able to make tighter turns, but wll not follow in the path of the tow vehicle. Yes, it will take a while to get usedto the length and charecteristics of a GN, but you will also find that a gooseneck is a much more stable pull. As to the Elite having an aluminum floor, the aluminum is marine grade and less likely to pit or corrode. We are extremely happy with our Elite. It is well constructed and if you have questions, they are only a phone call away. I would suggest that if possible, you would want an 8' wide trailer. Unbelievable how valuable that extra foot in width is. The axle width is the same on the 8 foot as the 7 foot wide. Good luck with your shopping and future purchase. | |
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Regular
Posts: 80
Location: Central WI | Going from a 3H BP to a 3H GN with LQ was a big change. To me it's not the length of the GN that makes it harder to back but the 8' width because you can't always see your back-end. The GN is much smoother to pull. We have an ELITE with 11' shortwall. The 8' shortwall or less limits your storage space and refer size. There is a big differenct between the 3' and 6' refer if you camp for more than a day or two. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 447
Location: cedar rapids iowa | The 1st thing that comes to my mind is do you have enough truck? If so I would get the 8' as you never have enough room | |
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Regular
Posts: 65
Location: Southern Il | Sounds like you are in the same position we were in last year. We have a two horse trailer we keep for short/day rides. We had a 1999 20ft, 7 ft. wide, 4-star 3 horse gooseneck that was a good trailer. But with a refrig, stove, kitchen sink only and shower and toliet, very small storage and really only one person could walk around on the inside at a time. (really difficult to get to the water pump to winterize it.) We spent 3 mo. trying to figure out what brand, size,etc. We wrote everything down that was important to the way we camped etc. (Every little thing!) We finally decided on an Elite three horse slant, 8ft wide, 24 ft, 6 in long. That extra 6 inches gives you a really BIG refrig and fresh water holding tank! I know, we didn't want anything over 22ft tops at first. It's not any harder to pull than the 20ft, and 2-4 people can be inside at one time and be comfortable. My husband was against it at the time but is so glad we have the room, and can actually use the shower (room to turn around!)and sink in bath. We went to dealers and looked at the different ways they can be sent up. Lots of ideas!! We had WERM flooring put over the new alum. floor. (no need for mats) If your starting from scratch, the possibilities are endless. Spend the time to research, you will be glad you did. You really need to have a truck to pull it that fits the trailer. Something else to check out. We are really happy with ours. Good Luck!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | |
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 Expert
Posts: 2453
Location: Northern Utah | I had a Classic for 7 years. I thought they were a good trailer. If Charmac is making them as well as Classic did. It will be a good trailer. Can't speak for their LQ conversion. Don't know what Charmac is installing.
23' box is not too big. I don't hang out at fairgrounds or rodeos, My camping is done at the end of Forest Service roads. My current trailer is 26' and I can get it around most places. I have to watch everything that is hanging under the trailer. Especially the dump valve. I seem to scrap that a lot. In other words, The turning radius hasn't been as much of a problem as the clearance under the trailer. | |
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Regular
Posts: 90
| Pony up if you can and go for the Elite, but I suggest the regular and not the Mustang...if you really can't, then go for the Mustang over the others...you will never be sorry. GN over BP is much easier...you are going to love it! Happy trails! | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 399
Location: Ottawa, Illinois 61350 | Having been a Sundowner salesman for close to 15 years, but yet having sold the Elite trailer also; I will interject my two cents worth. Sundowner not only builds the trailer; they also put their own in/house interiors in their trailers. That means that their LQ trailer is Sundowner warranted from end to end. THEY are not OVERPRICED when you compare overall quality to other brands of trailers. I tell my customers, that if you plan on using your trailer very long term, if you are a daily user of your trailer, or use your trailer year around; than spend the extra money and buy the high dollar trailer, such as the Elite or Sundowner 720/725 trailer. They both will hold up for 20+ years without any issues, and will still have a lot of value left when your done with them. If you are like most folks though; and are a fair weather user, or weekend user with a couple of week long trips during the year, than that Sundowner Horizon trailer will serve you very, very well for as long as you care to own it. It is well built; but just don't carry the price tag as the models mentioned above. | |
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Member
Posts: 45
Location: Mead, WA | Many thanks for all the helpful replies. Looking at a new 3/4 ton diesel GMC truck to pull the new trailer, but I'm waiting on that purchase until I settle on a trailer. Something I learned from this forum is to get enough truck for what you want to pull. Looks like 8' width is the way to go, and probably 8' short wall. I appreciate the comments about dealing with the length because I am really wanting a longer l.q. for camping with my husband. Also, appreciated the comment about clearance under the trailer - something I hadn't thought of and don't recall reading about this before on any of the forums. | |
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Veteran
Posts: 229
| d2allen, welome another trailhead camper from the PNW. I am Oregon and I drove up to Walla Walla ("The Trailer Place" or "Don Johnson Sales") to make my purchase. If you are not totally set on the brands that you mentioned and want to go good solid mid range, check out ad number 287013 or 282953 (Featherlite 8546). I don't have anything to do with Don Johnson, just bought a trailer from them. My requirements were, "short as I can get but with everything in it, including a 6 cubic foot fridge with separate freezer". The pictures won't show it, but there is a wardrobe and two drawers above the toilet. These interiors were custom made by a local manufacturer and are just awesome. 40 gallon fresh water, 27 gallons each black and grey. Propane furnace, exterior water faucet. No skimping! I have a hay rack with an additional 48 gallon tank in the hay rack. I just spread out using the back of the trailer and outside under the awning. I put a couple of rubbermaid wash tubs on the fender for outside and dishes wash up. These rigs are 20' on the deck and can go most anywhere, and yes, length is a consideration. I've got the two horse version and can go most anywhere, sight unseen and not get into trouble. As you well know, some of our mountain trailheads are pretty small and the roads and curves pretty tight between the trees. Think about the 7 wide. 7 wide allows you to carry a full set of corral panels on the outside of your trailer. Also, good clearance, which, like Painted Horse said, is important. All that said, I recently bought a used (and yes used is the best deal, you'll take a hit on a new trailer) Elite, 8 wide, 10 foot LQ. The LQ is no where near as nice as my smaller trailer, but my needs have changed and my younger aventure days are probably coming to a close and the Featherlite will soon go on HTW! | |
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Member
Posts: 45
Location: Mead, WA | Horsecamper, so nice of you to chime in! I bought my present 2 horse Featherlite (with huge dressing rm) from Don Johnson in Walla Walla. It was an overall good experience, but I was hoping to upgrade from the Featherlite. There are a few things about it that bug me, like the door hold backs and the non-telescoping dividers. I went to The Trailer Place website but couldn't find the models you mentioned. Many people have advocated the 8' width, so that is why I am choosing it. Also, I'm not so young any more and prefer better developed camping spots; and I also go to a lot of clinics, so I think I would enjoy a few more amenities provided I can keep the length under 23'. How can you say the Elite is not as nice as your smaller l.q.? Was it a Featherlite? What year? The guy who used to do the conversions for Don Johnson went out of business, so now they are doing them in-house. Where did you find your used Elite? What is the deck length? Are you ok with all that length behind you? Did you get used to it? | |
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Veteran
Posts: 229
| d2allen, It's indeed a small world! Sorry on the confusion. The numbers that I gave you were HTW ad numbers for Featherlite 8546 model trailers. The trailers are not being sold by Don Johnson, but one can tell that that's where they came from by the JR interiors. I have a 2005 8546 (6.5 LQ) two horse with the JR interior that I bought new after looking for a couple of years on HTW. Eventually I knew that I was going to retire and want a bigger trailer. The Elite is a top of the line trailer, but the interior is no where near the quality of the JR interior. What seems to happen is that many of these trailers get non standard camping LQ's. I looked steady on HTW for seven years and what I found were many Elite, 4Star that were east of the Rockies, and many had interiors that were not suitable for camping (no stove top, no propane heat, small fridges, small holding and fresh water tanks) I just kept looking on HTW. Finally I found a 2003 Elite in my price range (36k) in Gilroy, CA. It did have all of my must have's, but no hay rack, and small holding and fresh water tanks. I had Don Johnson fabricate and install a hay rack and 48 gallon water tank. Eventually, I'll get the waste water tanks replaced. One of the problems that we have is finding the top end midwestern trailers out here. I was not adverse to making a deal long distance with many photos, driving and closing the deal on inspection. Those Elites and 4 Stars are around, just not many and it takes a drive, but the used prices are so right! The deck length on my Elite is 24 feet, 7 feet longer than the Featherlite. The Elite, being a 3 horse, has axles placed further forward, so the distance from the GN pin to the axle is only 5 feet in difference, and stangely enough, I believe that the pin weight is the same. I haven't taken the Elite over the scales, but I know my truck and with the airbags the same, the truck sits down no more with the Elite than with the Featherlite. Don't worry about pulling an 8 wide or 23 on the deck. You will get used to it. I find GN's easier to pull than BP's. I really don't see much difference between my two trailers except that the Elite pulls much smoother. The big diffrence would actualy be trailheads, tight narrow curvy roads, and rough roads (the Elite is lower to the ground. I would have purchased an 8 ft LQ, but it seems that almost all mfg put a small fridge in the 8 ft LQ except Logan and a few custom LQ's. If you are SRW, not dually, you will need air bags or some folks here use Timbrens. You will also need to watch how you load your trailer in order to keep your pin weight within specifications. The biggy is to go slow, leave yourself sufficient stopping distance. Also, make sure that you have a good proportional brake controller, like a Prodigy. I think that Featherlite will definately beat the Charmac, and probably beat the Sundowner Horizon when you factor in the LQ. I don't know anyting about the Mustang. The deals are really out there in the used market. I still keep looking for the heck of it and see super deals on used 4 Star and Elite. I woudn't pass up a top of the line all aluminum used Sundowner either, just have to check the model numbers to make sure that it is all aluminum. Then there is Bloomer, Hart, Eby, Jamco, Twister, Turnbow. We don't see many of them out here, but I've seen a few. | |
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Member
Posts: 45
Location: Mead, WA | Horsecamper,I went and looked at the 2 Featherlites you mentioned (on HTW). The one being sold privately (#287013) was also listed on Craigs List and I corresponded with the seller. It's no longer on Craigs List, so maybe it is sold. Very nice looking l.q., but I wasn't ready to make the decision (that was back in Dec.) Lately I'm having 2nd thought about being able to pull a 23' l.q. trailer with a 3/4 ton truck. I'm getting advice from several directions telling me I would need a 1 ton truck for that size trailer. I might have to downsize my trailer expectations to stay with the 3/4 ton. What are you using to pull your Elite trailer? | |
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 Regular
Posts: 93
Location: Newnan, GA | many of us pull trailers with 3/4 ton trucks. those that do say there isn't much difference between them and the 1 ton. whatever. i have personally owned/ driven both and now have a f350 due to peer pressure from others that said i was under trucked and the mere fact that i love a big dually. especially how they look like they belong in front of an 8'w trailer.1 friend has an '01 f250, 4x4, pulling a 26' box bison lq (advertised as the 10'sw) - and another friend has an '09 gmc 2500hd, no 4x4, pulling his 29' box bison lq (advertised as the 14'sw). both of these rigs were approx. 3000-4000# lighter than my rig at the truck stop scales, loaded full for camping, almost apples to apples. I have an '01 C&C with a 26' box and 12'sw solid oak lq.we all live in GA and pull in the flat, SE area. the farthest we have traveled is 400 miles on the interstate to myrtle beach. my friend with the older f250 had a chip put in her truck so that she could keep up with me doing the speed limit.not sure if this helps you or not. my husband always said i was fine with my '01 GMC 2500HD 4x4. But I just love my F350 with that saddle interior;) | |
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Veteran
Posts: 229
| d2allen, If you are not comfortable with the idea of a big trailer, then start out with a used trailer like those couple of ads, 6.5 LQ JR interiors. If you buy used, you shouldn't get hurt on the deal. That aside, the deal breakers are pin weight and stopping. A SRW 3/4 isn't really any different that a 1 ton except suspension, hence the air bags thing. I'm at 6,400 empty on the 2H 6.5 LQ. I can't remember my over the scales pin weight. Rough average pin weight, according to the many I have read on HTW is approximately 25% of total weight. To keep your pin weight under specified max, a person needs to be mindful of loading. like no loaded water tank in the truck bed, no loading up quarter cord camp wood in the pick up bed. No three horses in a three horse LQ trailer, only two in the last two slots. A person needs to try to keep the the loaded trailer weight behind and/or above the axle to keep the pin weight down. I pull my Elite 10' SW 3H with the same truck that I pull the 6.5 ' LQ 2H, a 3/4 ton Duramax/Allison (Chevy) with airbags and a proportional controller. I only have a small fresh water tank forward in the LQ portion of the trailer. My extra water is in a hay rack at the very end of the trailer. I'm expecting that, if I have problems, it will be in the spur length of some of the camp sites. With my Featherlite, I can camp on the spur of the moment and get in any camp site. With the Elite, I know that I won't be able to do that, as many of spur lengths will be too short, the site too unlevel, or the angle of the spur to road too tight for me to make the turn backing up. BTW, what 3/4 ton? What year I'd be more comfortable with a Ford SRW than a Chevy. More comfortable with a later model with the bigger brakes. I've been considering putting an exhaust brake on the Duramax. All the SWR stuff aside, I'd trade my SRW for a comparable dually in a New York minute, as I have two 3/4 ton pickups, and the Duramax is used exclusively for towing. A bit off topic, but, if you don't buy one of those 6.5 JR Interiors nad if you do look at bigger interiors, keep in mind that us older folks like 7.6 high trailers, not 7.0 high and we also like two nice safe steps to get into the bunk area if we can get'em! | |
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Member
Posts: 5
Location: Gainesville, TX | what are airbags? | |
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Expert
Posts: 3853
Location: Vermont | Originally written by skyhorseranch on 2011-02-15 5:32 PM
what are airbags? http://www.truckspring.com/suspension-parts/helper-springs/air-spring-kits.aspx?gclid=CPKH99ixi6cCFYbb4AodZUyKdg | |
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 Veteran
Posts: 114
| just one other thing about the truck pulling. The transmission is very important when pulling. we got a 3/4 ton with the bigger transmission. Has the same desil cummings as our neighbors 35000. Pulls my 3 horse with LQ(8foot short wall) fully loaded just fine. | |
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Expert
Posts: 3802
Location: Rocky Mount N.C. | Originally written by ghbb41 on 2011-02-16 11:28 AM
just one other thing about the truck pulling. The transmission is very important when pulling. we got a 3/4 ton with the bigger transmission. Has the same desil cummings as our neighbors 35000. Pulls my 3 horse with LQ(8foot short wall) fully loaded just fine. What's the bigger transmission, bigger than what other offered by Dodge..?? | |
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Veteran
Posts: 229
| d2allen, I just saw another one of those JR Conversion Featherlite 8546's sort of in your neighborhood (Langley, BC). It's a private party and it's priced to sell. It's HTW ad number 298545. I've just finished cleaning up my 8546 and taking pictures, HTW here I come, this time selling instead of buying! Good luck on trailer hunting! | |
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Member
Posts: 45
Location: Mead, WA | Originally written by horsecamper on 2011-02-21 9:24 AM
d2allen, I just saw another one of those JR Conversion Featherlite 8546's sort of in your neighborhood (Langley, BC). It's a private party and it's priced to sell. It's HTW ad number 298545. I've just finished cleaning up my 8546 and taking pictures, HTW here I come, this time selling instead of buying! Good luck on trailer hunting! Horsecamper,I just now saw your post! Yes, I saw that Featherlite 8546 in Langley. It went fast. The price was right. I should have jumped on it, but was undecided weather to go 6' or 8' short wall. Right now I'm considering an Eite 9' short wall. Feeling a little nervous about something so big. Did you post your Featherlite 6' s.w.? Feel free to e-mail me privately if you are still wanting to sell it. d2allen"at"windwireless.netd2allen | |
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Veteran
Posts: 229
| hello d2allen, yes, the BC trailer was a good buy. I have listed my trailer on HTW, It's HTW ad number 299709, but my trailer is a two horse. Looks like I need to drop the price on it, given that the BC trailer went fast. Why I like these trailers so well is that the space utlization in the LQ is just so superior to anything else that I have seen. I really like having the large fridge in a small LQ. Even the 8 ft LQ's most often do not have the big fridge. Regarding the bigger trailers, I don't mind pulling the larger trailer, but I'm not going to like losing the flexibility of being able to get into all of the camp sites. The larger trailer will only make it into about half of the sites. If you have concerns, you can start out smaller and then go larger. If you are buying used, you shouldn't get hurt on the price. I really wanted my 8546 when I bought it, stepped up and paid the new trailer price, and am now going to take a hit on the resale. If either you or anybody else that you know is interested in my trailer, I'll gladly send you more pictures to your email address. | |
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Member
Posts: 45
Location: Mead, WA | HI Horsecamper,Your trailer listed is sure nice, but I was wanting a 3 horse. I've been going back and forth trying to decide between a new (expensive) 9' short wall and a used 6' short wall. I like your words of wisdom regarding the ability to step up in size later. Plus I think I'd like something smaller to get into camp sites. d2allen | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1069
Location: MI. | An 8 foot sw isn't too big and you already have a day runner. Believe me, you'll fill it up quicker than you think. The more you get to know the trailer the better you get at driving, parking, and safely, without adding pinstriping, backing it in what you previously may have thought was too small of a spot. An 8 foot wide is nice for storage and more interior room. Also, a taller trailer is more comfortable for the horses and you when using the LQ's.
Edited by Gone 2011-03-14 8:14 AM
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Member
Posts: 45
Location: Mead, WA | Gone,I really appreciate your comment as I have been feeling quite nervous about pulling the trigger and buying an Elite 9' short wall trailer. It started out as an 8' s.w., but I wanted a large fridge. The conversion company patiently worked with me to create a floor plan that squeezes everything in. Would you or anyone else mind taking a look at the floor plan and tell me what you think? I would prefer to e-mail it privately, so please contact me privately at d2allen"at" windwireless.netd2allen | |
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 Member
Posts: 47
Location: Findlay, OH | I would recommend the largest sw you can handle. I went from a 2 horse 5sw last year to a 3 horse 6 sw. I was REALLY worried about pulling it. Well, in just a couple months I was used to it with no problems at all. Now I wish I'd got the 8ft sw. I could have a full bathroom & storage. Good Luck! | |
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New living quarters trailer decisions
