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Regular
Posts: 88
| About to start my truck shopping experience. Looking at trying to find 2009/2010 F250 as my wife can't decide on what she wants for a trailer. My original thought was the F150 but we might end up with a small gooseneck and I don't think the F150 would be up to the pulling and stopping tasks. My question is what is everyones thoughts on gas or diesel? My concern with the diesel is the extra intial cost and higher maintenance cost. Any thoughts on gas vs diesel? Will the gas lack the power to pull a two horse gooseneck? We would be towing in the mountains of northern Pa. and southern NY. |
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Expert
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Location: western PA | For light hauling with a GN, I would purchase the 250 and the 6.2 litre 385 HP gas motor. What you may give up in diesel mileage will be helped by lower fuel costs, as well as lower purchase and maintenance costs. The 150 can be quickly overloaded when pulling a GN. The 250 has heavier components and larger brakes, and you will be less likely to quickly out grow this truck than the 150. |
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Kansas | Somewhat along those same lines, the current Ford commercials are touting their 150s as having more torque, etc. than ever. Not sure I can say this right, but how much more powerful can a 150 be now compared to in the past...and how close is a new one in power to a 250? |
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Regular
Posts: 88
| Is the 6.2 the V10? Anyone have comments on that engine? I have friends that had older V10's with a lot of problems. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 342
Location: Ohio | You'll want the 250 for stability and stopping power. You are correct in saying that a diesel is higher initially and maintenance, but IMHO its well worth it doing any mountain towing. I would not pass on a clean truck with a V10 either-and actually the 05 and newer V10's are 3 valve instead of two and have more power than the older generations and seem to be just as or more reliable. The fuel milage suffers some more on a V10 than a diesel, but V10's have great track records for reliability and longevity (almost the overhaul time as a diesel) and are cheaper initially and easier/cheaper to maintain-diesel takes 15 qts of oil plus a $20 oil filter every 5k where the V10 takes 6 qts and a $5 filter every 5k. I have an 06 powerstroke 250 and my dad has an 01 V10 350 and we have had equally heavy loads behind and neither struggled.
I would not buy a 250 with the V8 for mountain pulling.
A 2 horse GN with a DR fully loaded with 2 horses (I always figure 1200 lbs each) will weigh under or right at 6,000 lbs if I had to guesstimate and the V10 or diesel will pull with no issues. |
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: Ohio | Wow the thread took off! The older V10's has problems with spark plugs blowing out. 99-early 01. The later V10's especially after 05 had a lot resolved and changed to 3 valves per cylinder instead of two which created more hp and tq and also yielded slightly higher MPG's. FWIW, My dad has never had a problem from his 01 V10 and after reading on several forums, some consider it to be "Ford's best kept secret" for the trucks. V10's are 6.8 liters. The 6.2 that Gard is referring to is the brand new for 2011 6.2 V8 which replaces the older V10's by creating similar power numbers. This would be a good option if you were buying new, but I went off of you were looking for a 09-10 MY. |
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Expert
Posts: 5870
Location: western PA | The new Fords are no longer available with a V-10. The 6.2 V 8 Gas motor is new, featuring variable valve timing, direct injection, and is more powerful than the older designs, while offering better mileage. |
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Regular
Posts: 88
| Yes looking for 2009 or 2010 let someone else take the depreciation hit for buying new. Looks like V10 is the option. Any thoughts on nontowing mileage? Towing mileage? docgj |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 342
Location: Ohio | The 6.4 Diesel is not a bad option, but the regen cycles and other emissions add ons will hurt the fuel milage and compromise the longevity. These engines are known for bad fuel mileage, but are otherwise good diesels. Also the previously discussed initial cost and maintenance costs. I can't speak for fuel mileage on the newer V10's, but my dad's 01 350 DRW with 4.30 gears gets about 11.5 around town, maybe as high as 14 highway makes about a 12.5 to 13 mpg avg. Towing drops to about 10-11. I can't imagine the newer ones being significantly better. Your mileage may improve some just being a SRW. You will want 4.10's or 4.30's for the extra towing grunt. 4.30's make 60mph ride right at 2000 rpms. When we highway tow horses, campers, whatever, we're rarely over 60 just out of sheer safety. Good luck on your search. It took me 7 months to find the truck I wanted. |
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Regular
Posts: 88
| Many Thanks to all! Any additional comments would be appreciated. docgj |
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Location: michigan | we just bought a 08 v-10 Ford 250. I like the ride better than the PSD for what that is worth and we have yet to haul the horse trailer but we have used it for the sawdust trailer and it pulled well. Lots of power and I do like the accleration of the gas VS the PSD. Right now we are getting 11 mpg but are adding a K&H filter to it. We have been told it will help on mileage but lets be honest- we want pulling power, we didn't buy it as a everyday driving truck. |
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Expert
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Location: Rocky Mount N.C. | Ford 6.8 V-10 is still available in F-450 thru F-750 cab and chassis trucks..... http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2010/07/ford-to-offer-v10-gas-engine-for-mediumduty-chassis-cab-trucks.html |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 373
Location: Texas | We have a 2001 diesel, that we bought brand new 10 years ago. It is our first diesel. I'm curious why some are saying diesel has more maintenance costs that a gas motor? I have changed the oil like clockwork as to dealers recommendation, and they are a little more expensive than a gas motor oil change, but not much. No tune ups to deal with, and the motor has been a work horse for 170,000 miles. Even though diesel is now more than gas, I have found our MPG cost is still the same, or often better than a friends gas motor that gets much fewer MPG than my truck. What expenses am I missing that some feel diesels cost you more?
Even though gas motors have improved much since we bought in 2001, I'd still get another diesel for towing. That is what diesels do best! Tow!
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 690
Location: missouri | Over the past few years we have had an F-150 4x4, an F-350 4x4/ 7.3/sw, and an F-350 4x4 /6.0/dually ... the 3/4 and ton were both diesels. The 7.3 was a single wheel 2000 that was the best truck we ever owned, babied it, sold it with 153K mi for $15,200. How's that for re-sale?? that is why diesel stands up to the task to pull. However, if you don't really use a truck much, and don't pull steep hilly country, you can cut costs by going two wheel drive. Buy something you love and buy it right. |
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Expert
Posts: 3853
Location: Vermont | Originally written by docgj on 2011-01-20 11:51 AM
About to start my truck shopping experience. Looking at trying to find 2009/2010 F250 as my wife can't decide on what she wants for a trailer. My original thought was the F150 but we might end up with a small gooseneck and I don't think the F150 would be up to the pulling and stopping tasks. My question is what is everyones thoughts on gas or diesel? My concern with the diesel is the extra intial cost and higher maintenance cost. Any thoughts on gas vs diesel? Will the gas lack the power to pull a two horse gooseneck? We would be towing in the mountains of northern Pa. and southern NY. Are you locked in the Ford product line? Gas will not lack power, you'll just get crummy gas mileage... If you lean toward a diesel, I'd recommend a GMC Duramax... But be aware of the maintenance costs of a diesel... |
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Minnesota | I've got both an 01' 350 SB crewcab SRW V-10and an 05' 350 LB crewcab SRW 6.0. The V-10 will pull right with the 6.0 with about 3-4 less mpg.Non towing the V-10 will average right at 14-16 mpg. Just remember that with a gas engine it takes RPM's to make power. If you are going to be doing most of your towing in the mountains you might be better served for power with the diesel. That said it also depends on how much towing you will be doing. Another factor is the costs. Up front is the approx. $5,000 for a diesel. An oil change for me compares 4 gallons of oil to 6 quarts, and a higher priced filter for the diesel. I bought the 01 new and have spent maybe $1,000 on it for repairs and maintenance. The 6.0 I bought used in 09' and other than TWO batterys and an alternater only oil changes. Guess I've been lucky with both trucks so far. Exception: Forgot that I just brought the 01' home from the shop. Heater would only blow out of the defroster and not the floor. Asked the mechanic (avery good friend) to check it out and fix it. Turns out the 4WD is engaged with the same vacum as the vent control. Had a leaking seal on the right front and that caused the problem. I hadn't realized that I didn't have 4WD. This is a Ford problem with their engineering. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 373
Location: Texas | so no one has expense of tune ups, spark plugs etc. on their gas trucks? ;-)
Still don't think of my diesel as being more expensive to maintain. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 342
Location: Ohio | Do we really have to break this down? Diesels are going to be anywhere from $3,000 to $7,000 more to purchase than any gas truck right off the bat. For my diesel, Ford 6.0, it takes 15 quarts of Motorcraft 15w-40 diesel engine oil that is $14.00 per 5 quarts which is $42.00 total and a Motorcraft Oil Filter that is $18.77 at the local Wal-Mart. We'll call this $60 even for each oil change done every 5 thousand miles--labor done by yours truly. Now $60 times 20 Oil changes (per 100,000 miles) is $1200. If you factor in Fuel filter changes done at the recommended 10,000 mi mark at ~$50 per change (Motorcraft fuel filters) is another $500 per 100,000 miles. Diesels use 2 batteries instead of 1 (+$85) and will need changed before 100k. So initially, we are going to look at middle of the road $5000 off the top for diesel engine option. We're at $6785 in VERY basic maintenance cost plus the initial cost for the diesel option. For the sake of conversation, transmission fluid change, transfer case fluid change, differential fluid changes, tires, and basic 100k maintenance(belts, t-stat, water pump, etc) I will leave out because are necessary on both trucks and will both equal about the same - We'll call it $3000 total for 100k. V10's--use 6 quarts of Motocraft Syn blend 5w-20 oil at $3.99 a quart and a Motorcraft oil filter that is a mere $3.69. Change every 5k makes for a $30 oil change labor done by yours truly. Half the cost of a change for a diesel. $600 per 100,000 miles. Spark plugs--Motorcraft Iridium Plugs are $3.49 each times 10 is ~$35.00 every 50k (even though they are 100k plugs). So, $70 total and lets call it $80 for the change of plug wires at 100k. On gas engines I've owned, I don't worry about fuel filter changes until about 100k or I start noticing problems because they are such a hassle. $750 per 100,000 in VERY basic maintenance costs. Both diesel and gas barring additonal "warranty claim" troubles and cost (glow plugs, injectors, ball joints, u-joints, etc). Fuel costs-Current price at the pump- $2.95 for 87, 3.25 for diesel. For sake of conversation, both trucks have BONE DRY on E 38 gal tanks. Gas = $112.10 to fill excluding tax, Diesel = $123.50 to fill excluding tax. $11.40 more to fill up. Lets say I get 550 miles from my diesel per tank and the V10 gets 450 miles per tank (realistic #'s from experience). Per 100,000 miles--drum roll please-- Diesel--182 fill ups at $123.50 per fill (assuming static fuel price) = $22,477 per 100k in fuel cost -- V10 -- 222 fill ups at $112.10 per fill (assuming static fuel price) = 24,886.20 per 100k in fuel cost. -Diesel $22,477 + $6785 (initial cost and maintenance) equals $29,262 per 100k. -V10 $24,886.20 + $750 (Maintenance) equals $25,616.20 per 100k. 29,262 - 25,616.20 EQUALS $3645.80 in additional diesel cost in 100,000 miles. Is it worth it? Absolutely 100%. I'll never own another truck that isn't diesel powered. The towing power is worth it.
Edited by GRNMCHNEDAZE 2011-01-21 9:22 AM
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Minnesota | Just curious, can you ship me a tanker load of each gas and diesel at those prices. Today our prices are $3.15 for gas and $3.58 for diesel. Can someone explain why we pay an average of .45 more for diesel than gas when the diesel is cheaper to refine? |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 342
Location: Ohio | WOW! I have seen it as high as 3.49 a gal for diesel about an hour north of here and thought that was nuts.
I have always had the same question about the diesel refining and costs associated and compared to gasoline.
I personally think that its the oil companies banking on the fact the diesels get better fuel mileage (use less of it) and there are less diesel powered vehicles on the road, so they charge more for the fuel, whereas for gasoline, they make their money in the quanity that they sell which can yield lower prices (buy in bulk, baby!). Either way, both gasoline and diesel prices are absurd.
I remeber thinking when I was younger about the price of a gallon of milk vs. the price of a gallon of gas. I didn't think they'd ever reach each other, now a gallon of gas has exceeded milk.
I'd be interested to see a graph of annual diesel vs. gasoline usage amounts in the US-- considering all big rigs are diesels. I'm sure I could use the power of google.... |
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Expert
Posts: 3853
Location: Vermont | Originally written by genebob on 2011-01-21 1:35 PM Just curious, can you ship me a tanker load of each gas and diesel at those prices. Today our prices are $3.15 for gas and $3.58 for diesel. Can someone explain why we pay an average of .45 more for diesel than gas when the diesel is cheaper to refine? |
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Member
Posts: 39
Location: Southwestern, Indiana | I have a 2000 F250 V10 Super duty Crew cab 4WD Short bed 170,000 miles bought new. Normal maintenance outside of a $600 computer 4 years ago. 14 mpg city, 16+ highway if I keep it under 75. 10mpg pulling any trailer loaded or not, city or highway. I also have a 2007 F350 V10 Super duty Crew Cab 4WD Dually long bed 20,000+ miles bought new. 10 mpg city, 12 highway and 9.5mpg pulling a trailer. I believe the 2000 has 3.73 rear and the 2007 4.55 or there about. These trucks currently pull either a 20' BP flatbed w/120 bales of hay or a small tractor, a 3H GN Ponderosa Steel Slant Load Stock Trailer or a 2H BP slant load w/ dressing room. Either truck pulls these loads with ease and has plenty of stopping power. We pull the BP 2H with a Jeep Renegade, but only with 1 horse in it and only across town. That is within the rated load limit for the Jeep but you feel like you are on the edge. A 150 would be able to do 2 horses in that trailer but wouldn't want to go very far. I'm very happy with the V10 as 90% of my driving is around town without a trailer. My friends have diesels and they are split on which is best. I'll stick with the gas because I like the quietness of the gas engine. So my suggestion would be at least the F250 with the V10. I wouldn't get the diesel unless I only drove the truck to pull the trailers and no everyday use. |
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Regular
Posts: 88
| All your coments have been very helpful. Just one more thing to add...I might have to use the truck for work which means driving 40,000 miles per year. I will continue to use my work truck till it dies as it now has 230,000 miles on it and is worth trading. I'm looking at Ford because I have had good luck with them in the past. My current truck is an 2003 Ranger (no way will I use it to tow a horse trailer) and has held up very well. docgj |
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Regular
Posts: 88
| You all have been very helpful! One more question. Long bed or short bed? I'm thinking long bed to give more room for GN. docgj |
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Expert
Posts: 3802
Location: Rocky Mount N.C. | Originally written by docgj on 2011-01-24 9:18 AM You all have been very helpful! One more question. Long bed or short bed? I'm thinking long bed to give more room for GN. docgj I got one of each... Long bed is more gooseneck friendly..!! |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 342
Location: Ohio | Long bed is the way to go. Some have no issues with shortbeds, but with a long bed, it can broaden your trailer options. They are much more GN friendly.
On a side note, you may want to look into getting another ranger for work unless you need a bigger truck.
With these fuel prices, I'm keeping my eyes open for a commuter truck/car as well. Since my last fuel price post, fuel went up another $.10/ gal. Cost was $107 to fill my truck up (32 gal [just under a 1/4 tank]) that lasts a week and a half. |
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Regular
Posts: 88
| Thanks for the suggestion. Just happens that was one of the things my wife and I discussed this weekend. docgj |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 330
Location: northeast Texas | No one has mentioned that diesels seem to retain a higher trade in or resale value. We were looking at used trucks a few years ago and saw some that looked like great deals at a nearby dealership. Got over there to look and the trucks were all V 10's. They were much cheaper priced than diesel counterparts, and even comparable big block gas engines. We were told there was not much demand for them due to poorer milage. So I guess you could buy one as a good deal, but how about when you got ready to get rid of it?just asking |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 644
Location: Odenville, Alabama | F250 Quad Cab, Diesel, Long Bed Nuff said |
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Regular
Posts: 88
| N2ridin, That would be my ideal choice in a perfect world. When looking at comps the diesel is 5,000 to 7,000 more than the V10. It might come down to money at the original purchase. docgj |
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Expert
Posts: 3853
Location: Vermont | Originally written by CTRider on 2011-01-24 11:09 AMNo one has mentioned that diesels seem to retain a higher trade in or resale value. Unless their particular model diesel engine is identified as a problem...
Edited by PaulChristenson 2011-01-24 2:29 PM
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Ford F250 vs F150
