Truck and Trailer Question
Rose66
Reg. Dec 2006
Posted 2009-10-16 3:18 AM (#111920)
Subject: Truck and Trailer Question


Veteran


Posts: 136
10025
Location: Alabama
Anyone ever heard of a truck and gooseneck trailer that just don't pull well together? Can there be exceptions where an F250 crew cab just does not pull well with a individual gooseneck trailer but yet pulls other gooseneck trailers fine? If so, what could be the cause of this?

I don't know if my F250 pulls other gooseneck trailers good or bad because I don't know anyone close to me with a gooseneck trailer but I do know my F250 does not pull my gooseneck trailer good at all. So far Ford can't find anything wrong with my truck so that got me to thinking that maybe it was just this particular truck/trailer combination? Is that possible? I actually still believe the problem is my truck but who knows??? It sure would be nice if I knew someone close by with a gooseneck trailer I could pull with my truck for a test drive but then again, I really, really, really, really hate borrowing stuff even for just a short test drive.
share Top of the page Bottom of the page
retento
Reg. Aug 2004
Posted 2009-10-16 4:52 AM (#111922 - in reply to #111920)
Subject: RE: Truck and Trailer Question


Expert


Posts: 3802
20001000500100100100
Location: Rocky Mount N.C.

Where are you in Alabama? If you're near Vicksburg then why not give Don a call at...  http://www.dhmco.com/  Let them test drive/evaluate your rig and make a suggestion as to what you need to do...

Rose66 original post below, about truck problem...

(quote) I have a 2004 F250 CC 6.0 diesel automatic engine. I bought it brand new and have always had the proper maintenance done on it. At 35,897 miles, I bought my first gooseneck trailer and when pulling the trailer home, I noticed the truck seemed to be kinda fighting the trailer on bumps. At first I assumed it was normal behavior when pulling a gooseneck trailer since I'd never pulled a gooseneck before but then a little further down the road, the truck started to violently shake/jerk so hard that if I hadn't had my seat belt on, it would have thrown me into the floor. When I let off the gas, the jerking would ease off and then I could get back up to speed. This happened several times during my drive home with the trailer and at other times later. I took the truck to my local Ford dealer **multiple** times regarding this problem and they never could find anything wrong. They flashed the engine and that didn't help. They put some computer on it while I was driving down the road and that didn't turn up anything either. I took the truck to a local transmission shop and they said their computer showed that the transmission was going bad and that the reason the Ford dealer couldn't find the same problem was because the Ford dealer equipment wasn't as sensitive as theirs was. Ford dealer said they could not repair anything unless a code showed on their computer. At 41,000 miles, I was tired of fighting with Ford so I let the local transmission shop put in a new transmission and torque converter. That shop told me that transmission should last the rest of the trucks life. Not even 10,000 miles on that transmission yet and this past Wednesday, the truck started doing the same shaking and jerking again while pulling my gooseneck. Now my question to ya'll is: Did I just get "lucky" enough to get two lemon transmissions or could there be something else wrong with the truck that is tearing up the transmissions? Any thoughts will be greatly appreciated.

http://www.horsetrailerworld.com/forum/thread-view.asp?threadid=12526

 



Edited by retento 2009-10-16 5:56 AM
share Top of the page Bottom of the page
hogtownboss
Reg. Sep 2008
Posted 2009-10-16 3:45 PM (#111946 - in reply to #111920)
Subject: RE: Truck and Trailer Question


Expert


Posts: 1351
10001001001002525
Location: Decatur, Texas

Originally written by Rose66 on 2009-10-16 3:18 AM

Anyone ever heard of a truck and gooseneck trailer that just don't pull well together? Can there be exceptions where an F250 crew cab just does not pull well with a individual gooseneck trailer but yet pulls other gooseneck trailers fine? If so, what could be the cause of this? I don't know if my F250 pulls other gooseneck trailers good or bad because I don't know anyone close to me with a gooseneck trailer but I do know my F250 does not pull my gooseneck trailer good at all. So far Ford can't find anything wrong with my truck so that got me to thinking that maybe it was just this particular truck/trailer combination? Is that possible? I actually still believe the problem is my truck but who knows??? It sure would be nice if I knew someone close by with a gooseneck trailer I could pull with my truck for a test drive but then again, I really, really, really, really hate borrowing stuff even for just a short test drive.

So, I'm guess there is actually nothing wrong with the engine or transmission. 

Back to your question, YES, not all trailers going to pull the same  ie: My last trailer pulled like you was trying to pull a barn but our newest trailer you can not even tell it is behind you.  Same with my gooseneck flatbeds both the same trailer, same brand same size different year models but do not pull the same at all! 

Just a shot in the dark here, but is your truck a short bed by soem chance?

share Top of the page Bottom of the page
Rose66
Reg. Dec 2006
Posted 2009-10-17 12:46 PM (#111997 - in reply to #111922)
Subject: RE: Truck and Trailer Question


Veteran


Posts: 136
10025
Location: Alabama
Originally written by retento on 2009-10-16 4:52 AM

Where are you in Alabama? If you're near Vicksburg then why not give Don a call at...  http://www.dhmco.com/  Let them test drive/evaluate your rig and make a suggestion as to what you need to do...




That's a good idea but I'd hate to take them away from actually selling trailers just to help me with mine that I didn't buy from them to begin with.

share Top of the page Bottom of the page
Rose66
Reg. Dec 2006
Posted 2009-10-17 1:09 PM (#112000 - in reply to #111946)
Subject: RE: Truck and Trailer Question


Veteran


Posts: 136
10025
Location: Alabama
Originally written by hogtownboss on 2009-10-16 3:45 PM

So, I'm guess there is actually nothing wrong with the engine or transmission. 

Back to your question, YES, not all trailers going to pull the same  ie: My last trailer pulled like you was trying to pull a barn but our newest trailer you can not even tell it is behind you.  Same with my gooseneck flatbeds both the same trailer, same brand same size different year models but do not pull the same at all! 

Just a shot in the dark here, but is your truck a short bed by soem chance?



So far Ford hasn't found anything wrong with my truck but I've read on truck forums where other people with the same truck as mine are having the same type problem so I'm still not convinced it's not something wrong with my truck. The crazy thing is that almost everyone with the same truck and problem found something different that fixed it. Yes my truck is a short bed. I guess I'm going to have to break down (bad pun) and find someone with another gooseneck trailer and see if they'll let me pull it for a test drive with my truck. But gosh, I really hate borrowing things.
share Top of the page Bottom of the page

Reg. Dec 1899
Posted 2009-10-17 1:12 PM (#112002 - in reply to #111920)
Subject: RE: Truck and Trailer Question




ROSE, you are most welcome to come to our lot & pull a different trailer!  THX  DON
share Top of the page Bottom of the page
Rose66
Reg. Dec 2006
Posted 2009-10-17 1:33 PM (#112003 - in reply to #112002)
Subject: RE: Truck and Trailer Question


Veteran


Posts: 136
10025
Location: Alabama
Originally written by Dixie Horse & Mule on 2009-10-17 1:12 PM

ROSE, you are most welcome to come to our lot & pull a different trailer!  THX  DON



Really? Even though I am not necessarily in the market to buy another trailer? That would be awfully nice and I would greatly appreciate it. You are 2 1/2 hours away from me but I'm so frustrated with my problem, I would be willing to drive that far.
share Top of the page Bottom of the page

Reg. Dec 1899
Posted 2009-10-17 1:37 PM (#112004 - in reply to #111920)
Subject: RE: Truck and Trailer Question




ROSE!  Come on down!  THX  DON

 

share Top of the page Bottom of the page
hogtownboss
Reg. Sep 2008
Posted 2009-10-17 2:38 PM (#112005 - in reply to #111920)
Subject: RE: Truck and Trailer Question


Expert


Posts: 1351
10001001001002525
Location: Decatur, Texas

Rose, Take Don up on his offer.....  Then you maybe able to narrow it down.

But my opinion and with dealing with 3/4 and 1 ton trucks every day, I would say the drive train is FINE and the Ford dealer took you for a ride when he said transmission problems.

Now, the reason I ask about being a short bed is,  a freind of ours that is in the Mounted Shooting stuff we do, has a 2003 or 2004 Ford F-250 crew cab SHORT BED with the 6.0 and 5 speed AUTOMATIC transmission.  She went from hauling a small gooseneck to a little larger size Bloomer with an 8' LQ and now she is have "bucking issues" and the Ford dealer here said the same thing.  "your transmission is bad".  Well to prove to her the dealer was full of it, I hooked her truck up to my Sundowner with a 10' SW and had no problems other than setting a little low.  I hooled her trailer up to a truck I had pulled my trailer with and was it like a "buckboard", so after some checking I realize her trailer is not balanced and really heavy in the front, so we added Firestone air bags to her short bed and fixed the problem.  Way cheaper than a transmission is!

So, it is all about having you trailer loaded and balanced correctly to match the truck.

Keep me informed on what you find out if you go see Don.  Would like to know the outcome.

HTB

share Top of the page Bottom of the page
Rose66
Reg. Dec 2006
Posted 2009-10-21 7:49 PM (#112214 - in reply to #112004)
Subject: Don with DHMC


Veteran


Posts: 136
10025
Location: Alabama
Hey Don, how about me driving down this Friday (the 24th) and pull some trailers to see if it's my truck or my trailer causing my problem? If yes, what time would be best for me to be there? Thanks!
share Top of the page Bottom of the page
301duster
Reg. Jan 2009
Posted 2009-10-21 9:55 PM (#112219 - in reply to #111920)
Subject: RE: Truck and Trailer Question


Veteran


Posts: 188
100252525
Location: Ingalls, Ks
Maybe something a Star Perfmance hitch might help.  I don't deal them but have convinced 3 of my friends to try them and they can't believe the difference either.  I  believe they still have their 30 day money back gaurantee.  I'd about bet they've never got one back. Just my opinion!!
share Top of the page Bottom of the page

Reg. Dec 1899
Posted 2009-10-22 7:27 AM (#112225 - in reply to #111920)
Subject: RE: Truck and Trailer Question




ROSE, Come on down!!  THX  DON
share Top of the page Bottom of the page
brew26
Reg. May 2009
Posted 2009-10-22 8:50 AM (#112228 - in reply to #111920)
Subject: RE: Truck and Trailer Question


Veteran


Posts: 197
100252525
Location: MT
I deal star performance hitches and they help with any trailer you put them on.
share Top of the page Bottom of the page
cutterr225
Reg. Oct 2009
Posted 2009-10-22 12:07 PM (#112233 - in reply to #111920)
Subject: RE: Truck and Trailer Question


Member


Posts: 11

define ''doesn't pull well'' most 250's are set up for town use and don't have the proper gear ratios..
but the longer the wheel base the better always..
may just be the rear end ratio..
r
share Top of the page Bottom of the page
cutterr225
Reg. Oct 2009
Posted 2009-10-22 12:10 PM (#112234 - in reply to #111920)
Subject: RE: Truck and Trailer Question


Member


Posts: 11

p.s you might try balancing the trailer tires...most people don't ever do that but it usually helps/
share Top of the page Bottom of the page
Rose66
Reg. Dec 2006
Posted 2009-10-22 2:08 PM (#112243 - in reply to #112233)
Subject: RE: Truck and Trailer Question


Veteran


Posts: 136
10025
Location: Alabama
Originally written by cutterr225 on 2009-10-22 12:07 PM

define ''doesn't pull well'' most 250's are set up for town use and don't have the proper gear ratios..
but the longer the wheel base the better always..
may just be the rear end ratio..
r



My definition of "doesn't pull well" can be found in the link below which is to my original post about my truck problem.

http://www.horsetrailerworld.com/forum/thread-view.asp?threadid=125...

My truck's rear end ratio is 3.73 limited slip axle. It is a crewcab with short well base and is a 2x4 in case that matters.
share Top of the page Bottom of the page
Rose66
Reg. Dec 2006
Posted 2009-10-22 2:10 PM (#112244 - in reply to #112234)
Subject: RE: Truck and Trailer Question


Veteran


Posts: 136
10025
Location: Alabama
Originally written by cutterr225 on 2009-10-22 12:10 PM

p.s you might try balancing the trailer tires...most people don't ever do that but it usually helps/


Already balanced the trailer tires and it didn't help in this case.
share Top of the page Bottom of the page
Rose66
Reg. Dec 2006
Posted 2009-10-22 2:14 PM (#112245 - in reply to #112225)
Subject: RE: Truck and Trailer Question


Veteran


Posts: 136
10025
Location: Alabama
Originally written by Dixie Horse & Mule on 2009-10-22 7:27 AM

ROSE, Come on down!!  THX  DON



Okay, I'll see you tomorrow probably about 1:00. Thanks!
share Top of the page Bottom of the page

Reg. Dec 1899
Posted 2009-10-22 2:42 PM (#112246 - in reply to #111920)
Subject: RE: Truck and Trailer Question




ROSE,  :).  THX  DON
share Top of the page Bottom of the page
Paul D
Reg. Oct 2009
Posted 2009-10-23 7:49 AM (#112270 - in reply to #111920)
Subject: RE: Truck and Trailer Question


Regular


Posts: 54
2525
Location: Farmington, IL 61531

Rose,

I read both of the threads you have started on the problems you have been having with your truck pulling a gooseneck trailer. Well, this all sounds very familiar because my sister had the same type of problems with a Ford truck several years ago. I had to get involved with the Ford dealership to help her solve this situation. I am not sure what is going on with your truck but I can tell you that I am not seeing any responses that are coming close to what your problem may be.

Because you stated that your problem went away for about 10K miles after the transmission was rebuilt tells me the problem is at least similar to the problem my sister had. What is probably happening is the electronic controls that lock your transmissions torque converter into a direct drive type of connection are going on/off rapidly which causes the jerking sensation you are experiencing. This problem can be caused by several different conditions. One of those conditions is the rear anti-lock brakes. This is something that is not apparent to most people and some technicans included. The rear axle sends a signal to the anti-lock brake controller that must match up with the signals from the front wheels. When the signals don't match the anti-lock brake controller sends a signal to the transmission controller that unlocks the locking torque converter. When this happens under normal circumstances you never feel anything. When the transmission controller receives inconsistant signals the locking torque converter is going on/off which can cause the jerking you are feeling while under load but when you release the accelerator the condition disappears because no load is being applied to the torque converter.

However in your case the problem could be caused by the solenoid (or whatever they want to call it) in the transmission that actually locks the torque converter. These do go bad and they can cause the jerking you are experiencing or if they stick in the on position when you come to a stop sign and apply the brakes you will kill the engine. Some repair shops would rebuild your transmission and send you on your way. I personally would only replace the defective solenoid and see if that fixes the problem.

These are only two of the things that I think could be causing your problem, there could be numerous others. Please let all of us know how this turns out for you. I have definitely experienced the jerking that some gooseneck trailers have because of design problems in the trailer. I absolutely hate pulling a friends gooseneck flatbed trailer with my truck because it jerks so badly so I usually borrow another friends trailer. But I am fairly sure that you have another transmission problem.

Good Luck, Paul

share Top of the page Bottom of the page
Vetontheway
Reg. Oct 2009
Posted 2009-10-23 9:52 AM (#112276 - in reply to #111920)
Subject: RE: Truck and Trailer Question


Member


Posts: 7

Location: TN
I don't know the topography of your area but I can convey my experience with F250's and 3:73 gearing. I own an old body style F250 with 4:10 gearing and travel a particularly hilly stretch of road several times a year. Truck handles it beautifully and never downshifts. Last year, I traveled with a friend pulling my trailer, same load with his F250 with 3:73 and that truck downshifted constantly on the same stretch of road...I was shocked how often it downshifted...even in areas that I didn't consider very hilly. So while this may not be your core issue, be aware that truck and gearing combination isn't exactly kind to the transmission when towing.
share Top of the page Bottom of the page
Rose66
Reg. Dec 2006
Posted 2009-10-23 5:46 PM (#112297 - in reply to #112246)
Subject: RE: Truck and Trailer Question


Veteran


Posts: 136
10025
Location: Alabama
Well, Don, I guess it's obvious by now that I didn't make it down to your place today. I'm sorry for not letting you know that I wasn't going to make it but one of my horses coliced this morning and I've been at the vet school all day with him. He's on fluids and pain medicine and I'm praying he can work the impaction out himself without surgery. I'll get back in touch with you next week to see about coming down another day. TTYL.
share Top of the page Bottom of the page
Rose66
Reg. Dec 2006
Posted 2009-10-23 6:02 PM (#112298 - in reply to #112270)
Subject: RE: Truck and Trailer Question


Veteran


Posts: 136
10025
Location: Alabama
Originally written by Paul D on 2009-10-23 7:49 AM

Rose,

What is probably happening is the electronic controls that lock your transmissions torque converter into a direct drive type of connection are going on/off rapidly which causes the jerking sensation you are experiencing. This problem can be caused by several different conditions. One of those conditions is the rear anti-lock brakes. This is something that is not apparent to most people and some technicans included. The rear axle sends a signal to the anti-lock brake controller that must match up with the signals from the front wheels. When the signals don't match the anti-lock brake controller sends a signal to the transmission controller that unlocks the locking torque converter. When this happens under normal circumstances you never feel anything. When the transmission controller receives inconsistant signals the locking torque converter is going on/off which can cause the jerking you are feeling while under load but when you release the accelerator the condition disappears because no load is being applied to the torque converter.

However in your case the problem could be caused by the solenoid (or whatever they want to call it) in the transmission that actually locks the torque converter. These do go bad and they can cause the jerking you are experiencing or if they stick in the on position when you come to a stop sign and apply the brakes you will kill the engine. Some repair shops would rebuild your transmission and send you on your way. I personally would only replace the defective solenoid and see if that fixes the problem.




Paul, I don't know much about trucks but what you describe actually makes sense and sounds likely. I'm going to print out your post and show it to the Ford dealership to see what they say. If it were my solenoid in my transmission going bad, is it common for them to go bad in less than 10,000 miles? Or could there be something else wrong that made the solenoid go bad? Thanks!
share Top of the page Bottom of the page

Reg. Dec 1899
Posted 2009-10-23 7:22 PM (#112300 - in reply to #111920)
Subject: RE: Truck and Trailer Question




THXROSE!  That is fine.  Anytime!  DON
share Top of the page Bottom of the page
Paul D
Reg. Oct 2009
Posted 2009-10-23 10:42 PM (#112306 - in reply to #112298)
Subject: RE: Truck and Trailer Question


Regular


Posts: 54
2525
Location: Farmington, IL 61531

Rose,

Any electronic component can suffer a failure either prematurely, say after 10K miles or very early on (commonly called an infantile failure in high tech speak). I have given you only a few of the possibilities for the actual cause of the symtoms you are experiencing.

There are numerous connections between components and several electronic devices which feed information or signals to the transmission that could contribue to the symptoms you are experiencing. And one of the other responses in this thread mentioned the Technical Service Bulletin by number that required reprogramming the feed back of the Throttle position Sensor or accelerator pedal sensor. If that has not been done to your truck it should be if your truck falls within the scope of the TSB. 

Based on my past experience I would take your truck to a repair shop that specializes in rebuilding automatic transmissions and not your local Ford dealer. One of the other possible causes that should be checked is if the speedometer is providing consistent feed back to the transmission. Because speedometers are no longer mechanically driven they provide an electronic pulse count to display how fast you are actually going. This pulse count is part of what tells the transmission when it needs to shift based on your speed and engine RPM's. And your RPM's are also an electronic pulse count.

And to further confuse the transmission I am almost positive your accelerator pedal is actually connected to an electronic switch (simplified name). I now drive a Dodge and this is the way it works, there is no mechanical connection to the injection pump to control how fast the engine runs, it is strictly an electrical connection.

Good Luck, Paul

share Top of the page Bottom of the page
hogtownboss
Reg. Sep 2008
Posted 2009-10-23 11:18 PM (#112308 - in reply to #112298)
Subject: RE: Truck and Trailer Question


Expert


Posts: 1351
10001001001002525
Location: Decatur, Texas
Originally written by Rose66 on 2009-10-23 6:02 PM

Originally written by Paul D on 2009-10-23 7:49 AM

Rose,

What is probably happening is the electronic controls that lock your transmissions torque converter into a direct drive type of connection are going on/off rapidly which causes the jerking sensation you are experiencing. This problem can be caused by several different conditions. One of those conditions is the rear anti-lock brakes. This is something that is not apparent to most people and some technicans included. The rear axle sends a signal to the anti-lock brake controller that must match up with the signals from the front wheels. When the signals don't match the anti-lock brake controller sends a signal to the transmission controller that unlocks the locking torque converter. When this happens under normal circumstances you never feel anything. When the transmission controller receives inconsistant signals the locking torque converter is going on/off which can cause the jerking you are feeling while under load but when you release the accelerator the condition disappears because no load is being applied to the torque converter.

However in your case the problem could be caused by the solenoid (or whatever they want to call it) in the transmission that actually locks the torque converter. These do go bad and they can cause the jerking you are experiencing or if they stick in the on position when you come to a stop sign and apply the brakes you will kill the engine. Some repair shops would rebuild your transmission and send you on your way. I personally would only replace the defective solenoid and see if that fixes the problem.

Paul, I don't know much about trucks but what you describe actually makes sense and sounds likely. I'm going to print out your post and show it to the Ford dealership to see what they say. If it were my solenoid in my transmission going bad, is it common for them to go bad in less than 10,000 miles? Or could there be something else wrong that made the solenoid go bad? Thanks!

Rose, I have been dealing with these type trucks for some years now and the first thing you will notice if the problem is what Paul has talked about is the OD or TOW/HAUL light will flash on and off and or your abs light will come on as well.  You can confirm this with 99% of the folks that works on Ford stuff.  Yes, these solenoids in the transmission do work along with the abs sensors like Paul said.  But this is something you would notice unloaded also, not just when you had a trailer hooked up.

So please do not go spend good money after bad on the transmission again.  Go see Don and pull a couple of trailers and I think you will find that you might need to add some type of rear helper springs, air bags or even try the hitch deal.

share Top of the page Bottom of the page
Paul D
Reg. Oct 2009
Posted 2009-10-24 10:17 AM (#112318 - in reply to #112298)
Subject: RE: Truck and Trailer Question


Regular


Posts: 54
2525
Location: Farmington, IL 61531

Rose,

After reading the last response posted by 'hogtownboss' I realized the post I made that mentioned having the solenoid replaced was probably not clear as to what I wanted to convey in my message. I was trying to say that it is not likely you need another transmission replacement and the solenoid was an example of something that could fail prematurely. I am still convinced that if you pulled the trailer without experiencing any problems for the first 10K miles after the transmission was rebuilt that the transmission is what is causing the jerking. I mentioned several items that could be part of the problem and I still believe a good transmission shop would be the best place to go to solve your problem. Keep us posted as to what finally cures the problem. And make sure the TSB #07-6-9 has been addressed by your repair shop or Ford dealer.

Paul



Edited by Paul D 2009-10-24 10:19 AM
share Top of the page Bottom of the page
Rose66
Reg. Dec 2006
Posted 2009-11-07 7:31 PM (#112898 - in reply to #111920)
Subject: RE: Truck and Trailer Question


Veteran


Posts: 136
10025
Location: Alabama
Thought I would let ya'll know that we decided to just get another truck rather than spend more time and money trying to find the problem and then repair it on the Ford I had. So this past Wednesday, I bought a 2006 Dodge 3500 Quad Cab dual rear wheels. I haven't pulled anything with it yet because it needs a brake controller but I'm praying it pulls my trailers good. I greatly appreciate all the help offered on my truck problem though.
share Top of the page Bottom of the page
Paul D
Reg. Oct 2009
Posted 2009-11-07 7:41 PM (#112900 - in reply to #112898)
Subject: RE: Truck and Trailer Question


Regular


Posts: 54
2525
Location: Farmington, IL 61531

Great idea, I am a died in the wool Ford man, but I drive a 2001 Dodge 2500 QC 4 x 4 with a Cummins and a 6 speed manual. I am at 270K plus miles and still on the original clutch, transmission, transfer case, etc, etc. Really never had a wrench on the truck for anything other than routine maintenence.

Good Luck, Paul

share Top of the page Bottom of the page
hogtownboss
Reg. Sep 2008
Posted 2009-11-07 8:17 PM (#112902 - in reply to #112898)
Subject: RE: Truck and Trailer Question


Expert


Posts: 1351
10001001001002525
Location: Decatur, Texas

Originally written by Rose66 on 2009-11-07 7:31 PM

Thought I would let ya'll know that we decided to just get another truck rather than spend more time and money trying to find the problem and then repair it on the Ford I had. So this past Wednesday, I bought a 2006 Dodge 3500 Quad Cab dual rear wheels. I haven't pulled anything with it yet because it needs a brake controller but I'm praying it pulls my trailers good. I greatly appreciate all the help offered on my truck problem though.

Thats great Rose, you will love that Dodge.

share Top of the page Bottom of the page