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Elite Veteran
Posts: 792
  
Location: East Tennessee, USA, Planet Earth | This is making the rounds on the horse lists. FYI:
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 7:18 AM
Subject: NYS pulling over horse trailers, fines are horrific
One of the local harness racing people up here got pulled over by the
DOT yesterday and left with fines totaling $3300!!!! Every single
infraction of the DOT laws carries a $350 fine!
He was hauling 2 horses from his farm to the track at Vernon Downs -
IOW, not on a major highway like the NYS Thruway.
I don't remember
every single thing he was cited for but here is what I DO remember:
No fire extinguisher
Chains from trailer to truck not hooked "per regulations"
Wire for emergency brakes attached to the same part of the truck as the
chains
Dead battery in the emergency brakes on the trailer
No DOT number (he hauls his own horses ONLY in a 2 horse trailer like I
do)
They had him pulled over on the side of the road for a long, long time
checking everything. They even pulled the battery out of the emergency
brake and made him drive forward 100 feet and stop to see if the
trailer brakes functioned properly. Before he left, the DOT officer
told him they are stopping all horse trailers because "NY is broke and
needs the money".
I tried looking up the DOT regulations on both the NYS and Federal
websites and could not find ANY guidance whatsoever so I contacted the
NYS DOT and talked to a very nice guy who confirmed that they ARE
stopping horse/livestock trailers when they see them, the fines ARE
exactly as I quoted above - $350 per infraction - and that everything I
was told he was fined for IS correct. BTW - NY follows Federal
regulations so this applies to other states.
I specifically asked how chains are supposed to be hooked and he said
"Oh there is a very specific way they must be hooked to your truck
hitch". He is sending me the DOT manual today because he did not want
to mislead me by trying to explain "how" over the phone.
He told me that even though I haul only my own horses, that since I
show and some of those shows offer prize money, that is considered to
be "commerce" and therefore I need a DOT number. He said, and I quote,
"You don't want to have to pay THAT fine if you get stopped!". He also
said that if you go even a foot across the state line, by federal law
you are in "interstate commerce" and therefore need a DOT number.
If you don't have a DOT number, you can apply for one here:
http://www.fmcsa. dot.gov/
He advised me not to take my trailer out on the road AT ALL until I get
the manual he is sending and go through my whole trailer to make sure I
am in compliance. I will share the info from the manual when I get it.
If you want to get one of your own, contact the NYS DOT |
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Regular
Posts: 83
| If you're going to use your horses for commercial uses, make money on/with them, you're subject to the same restrictions as a "trucker". Recreational use is not subjected to the same laws. If you're going to write your ranch or stable name on the side of your truck, and tell the officer you're going to a horse race, horse show, horse sale, etc. you're driving a commercial vehicle. I drive a F350 and haul a large trailer for work. I have a class A CDL, get a physical every 2 years for interstate travel, carry a log book if over 100 miles from home, have a DOT #, get my truck inspected once a year, keep extra fuses, extinguisher, and 3 traffic triangles. It's not that big of deal once you get set up, or maybe you should tell the officer you're going for a trail ride with your saddle club. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 792
Location: East Tennessee, USA, Planet Earth | I agree with you. I've had my CDL since 1990. |
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Member
Posts: 12
Location: Michigan | I heard the same thing about Michigan about a month ago. We've tried to find the info on it and I can seem to find any at all. Has anyone else had any experience with this? We'd like to know - as we travel every weekend with a F350 and 35' trailer. |
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 Veteran
Posts: 235
Location: Bucksport, Maine | I've always wondered how the e-brake cable was supposed to attach, it never made sense to put it on the same loops as the chains. If anyone finds that info, please pass it along! I'm also interested in the rest of the contents of that DOT manual too, but with my setup it doesn't sound like they can get me for any of the 'commercial' stuff.
Edited by Sharon 2009-06-19 9:40 AM
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Regular
Posts: 59
Location: Mt. Vision, NY - waaay upstate | I live in NYS and this has been circulating around for awhile. I'm rather skeptical of the validity of it. However - if you are making money it IS commercial and you need a CDL. If you are like me, a weekend trailrider who hauls horses around to sleep in the woods, well, I bet you don't have to worry one bit. Of course keep your trailer legal! For crying out loud you are hauling your best friend(s) around in it. Make it as safe as possible. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1871
Location: NY | I talked to the director of DOT some time ago and he said that if you make money the that is commercial, if not then you are private and you do not need a DOT number. In my glove compartment is a page from the DOT web site that says this if I get pulled over I show It to them. for everything else it is better to have them and not need them, them to need them and not have them |
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Expert
Posts: 5870
Location: western PA | In PA, especially the western areas, many trailers are being stopped. They are not specifically targeting horse trailers, but will stop any rig for "safety" checks. They are especially concerned with weights, safety chains and break away equipment. This is a result of a contractor with no safety chains, loosing his trailer and killing an entire family in a van. Many pick up trucks are being ticketed for being overweight, while pulling GN LQ trailers. Most troopers carry portable scales and will check on the spot. I had to change my registration to a "combined" classification to become legal. Of course this literally doubles the yearly registration fee. So far they are not concentrating on the equine industry, and there are many of us in this area. With the local revenue situations becoming critical, this may change to a source of additional funding. Gard |
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Expert
Posts: 1351
Location: Decatur, Texas | I don't remember
every single thing he was cited for but here is what I DO remember:
No fire extinguisher
Chains from trailer to truck not hooked "per regulations"
Wire for emergency brakes attached to the same part of the truck as the
chains
Dead battery in the emergency brakes on the trailer.
First off any of the listed items above should be right before ANYBODY HAULS PERIOD!
This stuff was talked about a few months back I think under "farm tags", myself anytime Ior my better half goes somewhere it is either to the vet or to trail ride ONLY! We do have our name on the side of the trailer but adding "not for hire farm use only" to the truck, just incase....
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Expert
Posts: 3853
Location: Vermont | THIS IS A REPLAY OF THE IOWA STORY posted on this forum a while back... Revenue generation is on the rise...anyone care to guess which state is next to engage in this behavior. By the way when it comes to NY State Regs...these were laid out back in 2007... http://www.nyshc.org/currentissues/CDL%20Requirements%20for%20Horse... They just appear to have started to enforce them NOW... Though with this popping up all over the various forums as show season is entering full swing...this may just be another candidate for http://www.snopes.com
Edited by PaulChristenson 2009-06-19 11:27 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 420
Location: Florida | We are camping in the Adirondack Mountains right now and we were pulled over by the Environmental Conservation police on the way up RT12 Wednesday. They were running a road block. Checked our health certs, rabies and Coggins. Never looked in the trailer never asked for my license but did try to trick me up by asking the horses names while he looked at my Coggins.Just doing their jobs. Nice folks. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 322
Location: Fort Madison, Iowa | I'm with Sharon, what is the legal way you're suppose to have your brake cable hooked up? I've heard some say put it over your ball others say weave it through your chains. Thanks |
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.jpg) Expert
Posts: 2828
Location: Southern New Mexico | Your breakaway cable is supposed to be connected to the truck, not the hitch. That way if the hitch fails the pin is attatched to the truck and will be pulled. I hook mine to the tie down hooks in the bed.
Edited by Terri 2009-06-21 2:54 PM
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Expert
Posts: 3802
Location: Rocky Mount N.C. | My cable is attached to a D-Ring that's attached to the center stake pocket...... Up high and away from the hitch and safety chains, don't know if it's correct or not, just the way I've always done it. |
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New User
Posts: 2
Location: Macungie, Pa. | Another thing to remember is that if you are pulling a horse trailer rated at over 10,001 # you need a class A license to pull it. THere is a class A Commercial which subjects you to DOT physicals and drug tests the same as tractor trailer drivers and then there is the Class A for non commercial which requires you to take the driving test but you don't have to have the physical or drug screenings. Your driver license will show the one that you qualified for.
A lot of people here in eastern Pa have been stopped too.
Oh, the safety chains on a bumper pull should be crossed so if the hitch fails and the trailer starts to drop to the ground it is hoped the tongue of the trailer will land on the crossed chains keeping the tongue from dropping and digging into the highway. This, hopefully, will allow you to gain control and come to a stop. |
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Expert
Posts: 1723
Location: michigan | I live in Mi- just got back from a horse show. I passed several cops..county and state boys. I was not stopped. In fact, I have not been stopped while hauling the trailer.I don't know if these stories are true...since it is the internet, i'd have to be doubtful. |
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Expert
Posts: 1871
Location: NY | How do these regulations and terms apply to horse trailers?- If you are driving a vehicle or combinations of vehicles under 10,001 lbs. GVWR or GCVWR, you don't have to be concerned with the FMCSR's or a commercial driver's license (CDL). You must, however, follow the safety equipment requirements and driver's license requirements of your own state.
- If you are driving a vehicle or combination of vehicles interstate 10,001 to 26,000 pounds GVWR, you must decide if you are commercial and subject to FMCSR. You do not need a commercial driver's license (CDL), although your home state may have an additional classification of driver's license. (The initial decision is up to the owner whether or not he/she is pursuing a hobby or is involved in interstate commerce and he/she bears the burden of proof. If you only travel within your state, you may follow the state definitions of commercial, but if you plan to travel into other states and your vehicle or combination is 10,001 lbs or more, the official recommendation from Federal Authorities is that you follow FMCSR's)
- If you are driving a vehicle or combination of vehicles intrastate 10,001 to 26,000 lbs GVWR, you must follow your home state requirements if they differ from the Federal requirements.
- If you are driving a vehicle or combinations of vehicles 26,001 lbs. GVWR or more interstate you must have a commercial driver's license (CDL) and you must follow FMCSR.
- If you are driving a vehicle or combination of vehicles 26,001 lbs. GVWR or more intrastate, you must follow your state guidelines for commercial licensing (CDL), and FMCSR requirements.
Farm exemptions can be obtained in some instances, but the vehicle must stay within 150 miles of home.
Many states require trucks and trailers to have license plates that are labeled "commercial" but this does not always mean you are considered "commercial" in all states. |
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Expert
Posts: 1871
Location: NY | I thought that #2 was Important, as I read it if you make money then you are commercial, money for any place or doing |
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Expert
Posts: 5870
Location: western PA | We are camping in the Adirondack Mountains right now and we were pulled over by the Environmental Conservation police on the way up RT12 Wednesday. If you go up RT 28 at Alder Creek and head north, you'll find many beautiful spots. There's riding at Inlet, south of Thendera, and the Saranac Lakes region. Lake Placid has the large shows and riding. I believe there is also some riding in the high peaks area. Gard |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 420
Location: Florida | Heading home today Gard. We stayed in the Otter Creek area. I'll map those areas and see next year. If the show circuit ever brings you to Southeastern Mass let me know and I'll save you some overnight fees. |
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Expert
Posts: 5870
Location: western PA | There's also some nice riding at Boonville (off 12N) and the Brookfield trail system (off 12 S) attracts many riders. Thank you for your generous offer. Gard |
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Location: Where the wind comes sweepin' down the plain... | Originally written by Sharon on 2009-06-19 9:39 AM
I've always wondered how the e-brake cable was supposed to attach, it never made sense to put it on the same loops as the chains. If anyone finds that info, please pass it along! I'm also interested in the rest of the contents of that DOT manual too, but with my setup it doesn't sound like they can get me for any of the 'commercial' stuff. I was pulled over in Missouri for a livestock check and informed, nicely I might add, that it should be hooked anywhere other than with safety chains or coupler. Now that was his interpretation, but it makes sense. If your coupler fails, then your safety chains hold it, but if both the coupler and chains fail, then the brake cable will at least stop it. |
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Expert
Posts: 1871
Location: NY | I was at a meet in my are New york with on Monday 13, 2009 the supervisor of DOT was they to tell use about rules for horse trailer and this is what he said "if you are using your trailer for your own use and NOT MAKEING ANY MONEY then you do not need a number" nay money is the key word if you get pulled of or stop at a checkpoint and you are helping a friend out and they ask you are you getting pay for your help the answer is NO no gas money no dinner no any thing just helping or trail riding if you are coming from a show and get pinned that is money . He also said that some time the state trooper give put tickets that are not right so call you local DOT office and check before you pay. |
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Expert
Posts: 3802
Location: Rocky Mount N.C. | quote... He also said that some time the state trooper give put tickets that are not right so call you local DOT office and check before you pay.
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I guess they don't give refunds...!! |
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Expert
Posts: 3853
Location: Vermont | Originally written by retento on 2009-07-16 11:06 AM quote... He also said that some time the state trooper give put tickets that are not right so call you local DOT office and check before you pay.
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I guess they don't give refunds...!!
Edited by PaulChristenson 2009-07-16 9:20 PM
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Location: KY | The police or whatever still need "cause" to stop someone; if people simply mail in huge checks for huge fines, then the police will just keep on keeping on. Just because a ticket is issued, a fine is NOT AUTOMATIC. I still urge people to contest these stops and tickets. Recreational use is NOT subject to DOT. That is why those 90plus year old people can drive those gigantic rv buses all over the interstate.
Edited by rose 2009-07-16 10:57 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1351
Location: Decatur, Texas | Bottom line is do not give the a reason to stop you. Make sure your chains are not dragging the ground, WATCH YOUR SPEED, have nothing flying off or out of your truck or trailer, make sure your lights are working. Once they find a problem with 1 truck and trailer they will start looking at ALL of them, just to pick any and everything they can. |
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Expert
Posts: 1871
Location: NY | You do not always get pulled over if a truck stop has a checkpoint in them or a truck stop inspection is open you have to stop in and that is were people are getting tickets wrong answer to the question -what are you going or coming from ( a horse show is the wrong answer).the RV that people drive the people do not own them they rent them like rent a trucks so they do not need the rule but the dot officer said that that will change soon. one of the problems in my area is police are give tickets for having your emergence brakes on your hitch area they say that this is the wrong place BUT the dot office said that this a great place to put it on the truck so if I get a ticket he said to call his office and he would send the right papers to help fight the ticket |
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Regular
Posts: 70
Location: Temecula, CA | Sounds like "REVENUE ENHANCEMENT" to me............!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Veteran
Posts: 214
Location: lyle,mn | MSM, you nailed it on the head. |
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NYS pulling over horse trailers, fines are horrific
