OK, everyone knows we got a 2004 Sundowner 8010 Signature Series with everything but a hay rack and generator.  Now we are trying to figure out what type of generator to get.  Like the Honda and new Cummins Onan portable, but like ease of a mounted unit (for the better half).

The problem is I called a couple of trailer dealers to get a price to install a generator (I am buying the generator and remote hook up) and have been price from $1150. all the way to $3000.00.  And both prices sound a little high to me.  The Sundower dealer tells me I need some type of transfer switch and mounting kit, that is how he came up with the $3000.00 plus price.  The other dealer said the hard part was running the hard LP line to the lp bottles, but simple other wise.  Will be mounting on the roof!

I'm lost here, what do I do or what do I need to look for or ask about?

The portable unit I would have to carry on our hauler bed since the better half could not move it from the rear tack.

I had a Onan propane generator in the back tack on a trailer and wanted it moved up to the hayrack. I was told by almost all of the conversion companies that propane generators do not perform well when mounted up on top. I hated the propane generator enough with it mounted in the back tack so I never did move it.

I had a gasoline generator moved from one trailer to another for $1300 plus a new wiring harness. That was in Jan 07. I would think the prices would be better with the RV industry being so hungry right now.

A little something I read from RV.Net concerning gasoline powered generators.... We use "Stabil" in all of our gasoline engines. Stabil helps keep gasoline fresher, longer.

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Ok, here’s the scenario. You’re packing up the motorhome getting ready for a long grandiose road trip in the mountains or to the coast. You’ve planned on this vacation for months, executing the checklist line by line. You decide to start the RV’s generator to run the air conditioner in an effort to cool it off while you work at loading up for the trip. You push the start button on the console and it cranks, but won’t start. You try it again. And again. And again. Still nothing. So you go outside to the generator, open the access door and look at this seemingly complicated machine, but you have no idea what could be wrong. Back inside, you grab your cell phone and call the local RV shop only to be told their service department is backed up and can’t get you in for at least a week. Your brother-in-law stops by and offers to help but he does the same thing you did. Again the generator won’t start. He tells you it must be the control board or something along those lines. It’s hot and the wife and kids are getting restless. Vacation foiled.

I'd like to help you avoid this potential vacation tragedy and offer some information concerning questions about "modern" gasoline and it’s effects on the internal combustion engine, your generator and ultimately your wallet.

Gasoline is an organic material and it begins to age and deteriorate the minute it leaves the refinery. By the time you put "fresh" fuel in your tank, it has already aged considerably. Gasoline continues to age as it sits in your tank. Basically, untreated gasoline has a 30-day shelf life.

You and your family may age gracefully, but gasoline doesn't. During the aging process, masses of carbon, gum, and resin form in your gasoline. Fuels age because they become "chemically unstable". During transportation, storage and use, fuels are exposed to oxygen and heat. This exposure causes the atoms in the fuel to lose their balance (i.e. become unstable), molecular reactions take place, and the aging process begins. This happens to all fuels, especially today's reformulated "clean" fuels.

Years ago, gasoline lasted up to a year, but not anymore. The reason for this is a bit complicated, but I’ll try to deduce it for you. Gasoline is no longer exposed to the atmosphere in automobiles due to the efficient manner in which gasoline is stored and used. Namely, fuel injection systems and vapor canisters keep gasoline relatively fresh, plus gasoline in your car or coach is typically used up and replenished every week or two. For a carburetor to work effectively it needs to be exposed to the atmosphere via a small vent hole. The presence of this vent allows air to enter the fuel bowl, thus advancing the gasoline aging process considerably.

You see, refineries aren’t focused on the moderately small use of carbureted engines currently in production, but on the major percentage of consumption, which is the modern fuel injected automobile and therefore don’t refine gasoline with long-term storage in mind. Lead in gasoline was an aging deterrent (though it was used as a knock retardant), but it hasn’t been in use since 1988. Basically, gasoline has changed, not for the worse, but for the better, considering how emissions have improved over the past 25-30 years. However, some things get left behind in the process. In this case it’s the carbureted engine.

Over the years, I have serviced many different types of generators including Portables, RV's and Camper Gensets. Repeatedly these come in with the complaint that the generator runs poorly or that it won't start at all. Diagnosis shows, in most of the cases, the Portable Generator, Motor Home or Travel Trailer has been stored with no fuel protection. As gasoline ages, gum and varnish-like deposits form within fuel system components, preventing gasoline from being able to flow through the carburetor and usually the carburetor is damaged from these deposits and must be replaced. Experience has proven an 85% failure rate in cleaning or rebuilding a gummed up carburetor. Worse yet, an attempt to start the engine on the bad gasoline results in sticking the valves in the engine. This malady is only caused by bad or aged gasoline. In most cases there is a pungent odor of stale fuel present. Incomplete burning of the gasoline leaving carbon deposits causes an odor of stale gasoline to still be present in the cylinder head after the engine is disassembled. A perfect indication that aged gasoline had been ingested.

So how do we combat this problem? Well, there are a couple of things you can do. One is to exercise the generator every two weeks to keep fresh gasoline in the carburetor. Another way is to drain the carburetor and fuel system, but this too can exacerbate the problem because each time the fuel is drained, a small residue of gas is always left behind and this will cause problems, long term. Yet another way is to use gasoline that is already treated, but unless you’re a chemical engineer, this is difficult to know which oil company has the best additive and of course is minimal protection at best. The easiest and most useful way is to use an additive or preservative in the fuel. There are several products ranging from the “Mr. Clean of Gasoline” to nothing more than the proverbial “Mechanic in a Bottle”. Some products when added to gasoline not only stabilize the fuel but also reduce emissions and increase efficiency. Additionally, some have the capacity to recover aged gasoline to a volatile or combustible state. Do your research and decide what’s best for you and your application. Though I'm not endorsing PRI, I have however found this it the best.

I sincerely hope this helps you understand the gasoline mystery that seems to plague many gasoline generator owners and hopefully with your newfound knowledge your next vacation or trip will go off without a hitch.

Just  a note to clarify.  With our setup it is impossible to backfeed shore power into the generator, as I can plug my trailer's power cord to a campground outlet, or an outlet just inside the door I pull my shore cord out from...and that outlet is to receive power from the generator...it is impossible for me to be plugged into both campground and generator at the same time.......and hence, no need for a transfer switch.  When I pull in to fuel up diesel, I top off the 20 gal gasoline tank for the generator, and good to go.  If I am on an extended boondock camp, I can always top off that tank with a portable gasoline jug, without having to take the trailer in to fill LP, as does one of my friends whose LP tank is permantently mounted.  Works well in winter at altitude, which sometimes can be a problem for LP. 

"Course, we take ours to elk camp, with riding and pack mules, so our mileage does vary!!

Dear Hog;

Did you know that you lose power with your LP generator? We got a Gas generator mounted on our trailer two years ago... under the saddle rack in the rear tack... with the approved tank mounted under the last manger. We bought a Generac "quietpac" 4500 unit for a couple of thousand dollars. Mounted with remote start in the LQ... at that time, we also got  remote switchs for all the exterior lights in the LQ... sure makes it convenient. The gas generator only uses about 5 gallons of gas for a 3 day weekend...

Well, since I can not get a "for sure" price or answer about what is needed to install a mounted generator on our Sundowner (from our local dealers)  Still getting priced anywhere from 750.00 (now) all the way to over 3000.00 plus the generator.   Can not understand the big spread in prices! 

Now we are thinking about just going the portable route to my dislikes.  I have heard good things from the Honda's, but I have found a new Cummins/Onan 4300 that they say is even more quite than the Honda with more power and CHEAPER PRICE!.  I have checked with every rental company within a 100 miles radius to try and rent one for the weekend before I bought one.  NO LUCK!  Has anyone used one of these yet?

Never seen one... They are not as quiet as the Honda or Yamaha. Onan is 62db verses Honda's 58db. It has 1000 more running watts... A big PLUS!! Prices run from $2500.00-$3200.00.

I have this Yamaha generator that has run flawless in 100 degree temps, the Yamaha  EF3000iSEB.  If I were buying again, I would step it up a notch and get this one myself. http://yamahagenerators.com/yamaha_generator_ef4500ise_pr_44.html

Some info on the 4300 Cummins/Onan...

THE P4300ie INVERTER GENERATOR
Cummins Onan Inverter technology takes the raw power produced by the portable generator and using a special microprocessor, converts the energy into a quieter, more consistent and cleaner source of power that more closely resembles the power found in a typical household AC wall outlet.  This is an ideal power backup solution for homes and businesses that rely on sensitive equipment such as computers and modems!

Cummins Onan's biggest inverter model, the p4300ie is powerful enough to run one 15,000 btu air conditioner with power to spare!  One of the most quiet in it's class, equipped with electric start and up to 4300 watts of power, the P4300ie is a serious generator.

Features: 

• 3,800 Running Watts, 4300 Peak Watts
• 5.3 Hour Continuous Operating Time (At rated load)
• 62 dB(A) at 7m
• Electric Start (Recoil Back-up)
• Battery Not Included (Battery Size: 12V-12A-h or Larger) See Page 16 of Owners Manual for Recommended Battery Make and Models
• 9 HP, 4-Stroke Overhead Valve Engine
• Large 3.4-Gallon Fuel Tank
• 120V GFCI Protected Duplex,
  120V Twist Lock
• Multi-meter w/LED display - Voltmeter, Hourmeter
• Frequency/Overload Condition and Auto Power System Idle Control
• Wheel Kit (Included)
• Dimensions: 23" L x 21" W x 24" H
• Weight: 163 lbs.
• 2 Year Limited Warranty From Manufacturer
• EPA Certified Emissions

Length:  23" (584.2 mm)

Width:  21" (533.4 mm)

Height:  24" (609.6 mm)

Weight:  163 lbs (73.9 kg)

Sound Level:  62 dB(A) at 7 m

MODEL RATINGS

AC Rated Output: 3.8 kW / 3,800 watts

AC Max Output:  4.3 kW / 4,300 watts

AC Voltage:  120V

AC Frequency:  60 Hz

120V AC Rated Amperage - Rated/Max: 31.7 A/35.8 A

DC Voltage:  12V

Engine Horsepower: 9

Fuel Tank Capacity:  3.4 gal/12.9 liters

Thanks for the reply,  I was going to check out the Yamaha also. 

I stopped in NRS Trailers today was price $1799.00 for the cummins onan P4300 and they offer to hook one up and let me try it and hear it before I bought it.  Guess I can't beat that....

Still would rather have the mounted unit, Oh well have to go with what I can pay cash for!

I had my propane tanks freeze up several times in OKC in late Nov. I had 3 - 40# propane tanks in an enclosed front trailer and they still froze up! Since the power was out in the campground, I had no heat, no hot water and no generator. So I had to drag myself to a friends trailer to shower and get a cup of hot coffee. My Onan had just been serviced the week before in preparation for the crazy OKC weather.  I will NEVER EVER EVER have a propane generator again. But, I wish you luck with yours as I think you will need it.

I have a gasoline generator that I like but my next one will be diesel for fueling convience.

Either your LP tanks are too full or you're getting liquid inside of the regulator instead of vapor. The regulator should not be freezing unless you have liquid propane feeding it . You should not have liquid entering the regulator . Make sure the propane bottle is in the upright position . The only place you will see some frost is usually around the liquid level in the bottle . Also make sure that the bottle is never filled to more than 80%.which is probably checked by the supplier where you get your refill. Your regulator is freezing because you have liquid propane evaporating in your regulator only vapor should be entering the regulator.

The presence of moisture in the fuel may cause the regulator to freeze up. The following suggestions may help you prevent regulator freeze-ups and allow moisture to pass harmlessly through the regulator.

• Always keep the cylinder (or container) valve closed and POL plug in place when not in use to prevent moisture from collecting inside the container.
• If you suspect the presence of moisture, your propane dealer can inject methyl alcohol into your cylinder (or container) before filling.

For the week? 5 day week or a complete 7 day? If just a 5 day week then clearly there is something leaking on ya'lls system if you are going through that much lp in that short of time. As I stated before our 2 30lb bottles last a weekend with the a/c on 24/7 (late friday afternoon till sunday at lunch) with lp still left. But I did think ahead, my hauler bed has 4 large toolboxes built into the side and the front 2 boxes will hold a 20lb bottle in eash side so I had holddown brakets installed in the boxes so I can carry 2 extra 20lb bottles if needed.

I am trying to figure out why the Camping World in Denton, Texas would tell me something different than the one you used?

No clue, but not an issue for me any longer. It is long gone. I wish you luck  with your propane generator. I can only tell you about my personal experience. I learned a big  and expensive lesson. FYI, the Camping World in Denton, TX did check out my propane generator system! As did the one in OKC, and the one in Nashville.

"Still would like to know what type of water heater one of the other posters used? (since they say it was not lp)"

I think you may be referring to when I had to take a shower in a friends trailer in OKC because my LP was froze up and the RV park was without power. They had an all electric LQ with a larger than average  gasoline  generator.

Always shut the gasoline off at the tank, burn all the gasoline out of the carb until the engine shuts itself off.... No gas sloshing in the carb bowl while bumping down the highway, no sticking needle valve and no leaking gasoline out to atmosphere.

boss.... You may check to see if that generator comes as a dual fuel... Gasoline or LP at the flip of a switch, use whatever is available.

The guys here local say they can add something to the onan to be able to run either fuel in this new unit.  I have no clue...... 

Still want the mounted unit, just don't have the funds for all the extras they say I might need.  A few hundred on top of the actual generator price would not be bad ($300 to $500) but $1000 to $3000 plus, on top of the generator price is not doable right now!  And with the better halfs trail challenges starting right after the first of the year I got to have this thing ready to go or I will never hear the end of it.........  

"OK, so can you find out what type or brand of water heater it was?"

She has already traded that trailer and is now pulling a Duster LQ. But, I do know the LQ was a Cowboy Classic out of Springfield, MO. Maybe you could call them and ask which  water heater they use in their all electric LQ's. They have had many name changes as they used to be SVM Freedom Creek, KWG, & Imperial.

Sorry, I did not clarify the exact year as it was not Nov 08 but Nov 06.  I have  not even had that trailer in my possesion for over a year now.  If I still had it, I would cut you a heck of a deal on that propane generator!

I called SD and they are sending me the build sheet this week.  I found the breaker box (in the nose of the trailer) and there is a wiring diagram but I did not look close yet.  I was waiting for more details (since I have no clue what I am doing)

No origianl paper work, YET.  This was a bank repo.  SD is sending me a copy of the paper work and I did find out that this thing has just about every option that SD offered in 2004. (everything but the generator, ramp, hayrack)

If I was going all the time, I would deal with the portable unit, but the better half goes most of the time with her friends and I have a list of stuff for them to do and check over when they go, I sure did not need to add the instructions for plugging in the portable unit and all of that and telling her that she would actually have to walk outside and start it! 

That would go over like a turd in a punch bowel! lol