Has anyone tried the leather harness @$349 from Country Supply?   www.horse.com

is one of my favorite places but I am a little concerned about this harness.....and I am such a prissy old woman, I just hate to send stuff back.....

No, but if you get Hi fives on it and decide to purchase it, let me know what you think of it.. My daughter's outgrown KY Mtn pony is said to drive, but I've not tried.. I've never driven a cart in my life and wouldn't know where or how to start.. I've always wanted to, tho.

Been a carriage driver for years!!  Do NOT under any circumstances buy cheap harness.  If you've never driven or trained a driving horse before, enlist the help of a "professional" or at least a non-pro with significant experience.

The harness sold through the supply catalogs is usually made in India or Pakistan and is like cardboard.  I wouldn't do it.

Usually people who are involved in carriage driving and who sell horse drawn vehicles will appreciate the importance of well made harness.  They also don't want to be responsible for accidents that could occur if their product fails. There are a few very high end harness makers in the states and in Canada and their prices reflect their artisanship.  The quality of their leather is incredible and the stitching and workmanship is wonderful, but that said, there are also a bunch of excellent harness makers around.  Most of the Amish made harness you will find is quite good.  Look for American made hardware - stainless steel if you can find it for everyday work harness.  Make sure when you fold a piece of leather against itself it doesn't fray or tear or snap.  You may also want to consider biothane harness - just wash it off when you're done - no leather cleaning or conditioning, but the quality of the materials and workmanship can vary as much as with leather.

Carriage driving can be quite fun - not talking about the "pleasure" driving in the QH or Appaloosa show ring - but also quite risky. I've had a couple of carriage accidents over the years and was very lucky not to get me or my pony hurt badly, but I've seen some doozies!

Rose... I own some Smuckers harness and it is very nice, but there are some other harness makers in the Lancaster area that do as good a job.  Village Harness in Bird-in-Hand comes to mind.  The Martin's Carriage auction is coming up the weekend at the Lebanon PA fairgrounds.  It's usually packed with good buys on harness and carriages as well as a ton of other good horse stuff.  I wonder what effect the economy will have on it.  I may take a ride out there on Saturday just for fun.

I do agree that the biothane harness is great for Non-show applications.  My kid uses a good biothane for marathon driving.  She used to use leather, but the biothane is much easier to care for and a good one is just as safe as a good leather harness.

jakey...Thanks for your comments.  I would like to hear a report of the Martin's Auction.  Am going to look at a buggy mare tomorrow at an Amish farm near me.  She sounds lovely so wish me luck.

Rose... I love the term "buggy mare".  Most mares I have owned through the years have been "buggy" ....

Good luck with your search!

I have always wanted a buggy horse!  Several years ago I was in Muddy Pond, Tennessee.  It is an Amish or Mennonite village, with their own ironworks, harness shop, buggy maker, etc.  They make the MOST beautiful buggies I have ever seen.  They use several varieties of natural woods.  They don't paint or stain the wood, just oil and varnish to allow the natural colors to shine.  Hope someday to own one!

Marla 

Good Morning Marla and Jakey....I did not make it over to see the mare;  so am going today.  Went to see my show mare and to buy some fresh veggies from the Amish farm next door to the show barn.  I looked up Muddy Pond and it sounds like a treat to visit.  Going to try to go there in the next couple of weeks since it is sorghum making time.

Jakey....is it just a girl thing?  I love my mares;  feel closer to them.  Altho my gelding is a really good guy and my best b.f.

Hi Jakey

Went by to see the mare yesterday and to make an appointment to see her harnessed and to drive her.  She is a pretty bay (not roan) standardbred of about 14.1 hands.  Her name is "Betty" which I like. She came when called by name;  she was out in the pasture with several other horses.  My previous buggy horse was 13.2 but heavier than Betty, so I think I will retrieve my lent out harness..........  Will let you all know if Betty comes home with me.....

Rose... that's so cool!  I do like some of these standardbreds and 14.1 is a good size.  They seem to be very levelheaded.  We have always had Hackney ponies for driving.  I am going to look at a nice Hackney pony mare... green broke, but supposedly very calm.  I think she may be bred.  A baby will be fun to have again.

Not too many Hackneys up in this area... I think you have a few down in KY, don't you?

Rose... I knew you were going to go for it!... best of luck and thanks for the heads up about Smuckers.  My daughter is looking for a pony gig saddle.  I sent her an email so perhaps she can contact them.

Keep us in the loop regarding your progress with Betty.

Hey, What about the nylon harness also advertised in country supply?  What are the merits (if any) in regards to nylon web harnessess.  My daughter's pony is nearly outgrown. There is no market right now for a gaited pony of her size... She is said to drive, but I've never tried.. We bought her in KY from a fella who buys and sells horses..usually gaited ones.. He, himself had recently bought her from the amish.. He thinks she was broke to drive and at the time we bought her, her forelock was cut off, which I've been told is common practice for buggy horses among the amish.  I know I'm going on he saids-she saids, but  even though I know nothing about driving horses, I wouldn't mind trying this pony out, if I can get some good advice and assisstance.. I used to ground drive my appy colt years ago (yes, I know it's not the same thing), and with all of the printed info available, I should have a large volume of resource material to pull from....Let me say that this is a very calm, sweet pony, who would make a wonderful harness horse... At 13.2 hands, she's a good size to drive, whereas ahe would be (and was) quickly outgrown as a riding pony.. she has more common sense than my own much-loved personal mare.. 

Any yeahs or nays regarding nylon?

My daughter and I have been involved in driving for a good many years...  and we know lots of people in the same "boat".  I've got to say I've never seen or heard of any of my reliable driving acquaintences using nylon web harness.  I don't know how comfortable it would be for the horse.. maybe that's a consideration.  Nylon web can bind. 

Ground driving is a very good way to start or re-start a driving horse.  I would harness the horse - make sure everything fits well - take your whip in hand and give the animal a lot of road work before you even think about hitching to a cart. If you have a drag available it's a good tool to get them used to the weight behind them.  They have to learn to stay straight in the traces before you put them between shafts.

There are some great books and videos out there, but do not be in a hurry... do lots of groundwork first.  Once a horse is frightened it is very hard to overcome.

My recommendation to you is to start from scratch with your pony. This way you can truly know if she has a clue about being driven. Do not just hook the pony until you are certain she is a reliable driving animal. Check out these places  www.countrycarriagesusa.com , Driving Essentials, Carriage Driving Essentials, The Carriage House....I have been driving for many years and have competed for a great majority of them. Nylon harness is OK but it does not always fit well. There is Beta harness available at reasonable prices and I prefer Zilco which is a synthetic. Both of these have the look of leather with the ease of care because you can hose them off. If you want leather, look for a good quality used harness. Ponies can be a little harder to fit than horses because there are so many sizes and variations. I have owned the cheap harness you have looked at and in the end you will be much happier and safer with a good quality harness. The cheap ones do not usually fit well either.

Good luck!! I love to drive, it's great fun but it also involves more risk because you have attatched something to the horse. Take your time, be careful and you will have success.

Ridingarocky...

Not sure what you mean by "longing at liberty"... I would never harness an animal and turn it loose!!...  Begin by harnessing the horse/pony with the harness fitting well.  Use the "blind" bridle, the surcingle with turrets, the crupper - leave off the traces and you won't need the breast collar at the start. I always start with a snaffle bit - usually a half cheek wrapped in latex. Contact with the bit is important with a driving horse.  Also use the noseband fitted snuggly so the horse does not get his tongue over the bit.  Run the long lines through the turrets on the surcingle and stand behind the animal and using your whip (always) encourage the animal forward. 

Can't explain this all in an email... look for a good video or contact a reputable trainer in your area for some basic instruction.  Every mistake you make will cost you in the end and can be dangerous!

Riding... I would never harness a horse and then let them go "free" even in a round pen.  There is absolutely no way to secure all the parts of a harness like there is with a riding saddle.  It's too easy for it to come undone and cause spooking or even injury.  You can use longlines through the turrets instead of regular reins and by standing in the center, you can "steer" your horse around and have them get used to the new equipment.  Even allowing the longlines to drop behind the rump and hit the legs in "odd" places will help, but never completely loose!

Rose... so glad your Betty seems to be working out.  Don't forget to send pics!  I attended the Pennsylvania Hunt Cup races this weekend in Kennett Square PA.  What fun!  In addition to the steeplechase type races, they had a Carriage/Coach demo which included 22 carriages - all different types of horses and vehicles.  After the "parade" the spectators were welcome to walk through the parked vehicles and observe and speak to the the whips and passengers. Had a really nice time and it got me thinking about driving again... haven't done much of it over the past few years since I went back to trail riding.  Cleaning all that driving stuff was a drag.

Jakey

Yes cleaning the stuff is icky....I have not yet finished cleaning the buggy, hence no pix;  altho Betty is clean so I could get a pix of her.....I am going to work on it tomorrow as I am anxious to go out and about, but I do not want to embarass Betty by taking her out hooked to a filthy buggy.

info for driving horses from www.horsecart.com

Books

Carts | Wagons | Cart Parts & Options | Harness | Harness Parts | Driving Tack | Books | Videos

Breaking & Training the Driving Horse This book tells you everything from how to ground drive to harnessing correctly. Great illustrations. Best book for training. Doris Ganton 1985, paperback, 85pp Starting to Drive A wonderful step-by-step instruction to safe harnessing, hitching, and basic driving techniques. Color illustrations throughout. Best book on harnessing. Sallie Walrond 1994, paperback, 24pp $14.99 <form action=http://easycart.plugnpay.com/easycart.cgi method=post encType=x-www-form-urlencoded>Qty. <form action=http://easycart.plugnpay.com/easycart.cgi method=post> $14.99<form action=http://easycart.plugnpay.com/easycart.cgi method=post encType=x-www-form-urlencoded>Qty.   Grants Pass, OR 97526 541-476-5321 horsecarts@charter.net

Thanks for the info.. that's helpful!!

Rose, we want to see pics soon!!

Leslie

The Doris Ganton book is a good basic reference.  I can't speak to the Sally Waldron book, although Sally is a well respected whip.  I think I'd look for a good video and still want an experienced driving person along to help.... especially at the start.  There is just so much to driving that is different than riding.  When you ride, especially western, you tend to ride off the bit.  You don't want to "hang" on your horse's mouth all the time.  In driving, you DO want constant contact with the horse's mouth.  For example... rather than pull back on the right rein to make a right turn, when driving, you keep your right rein constant and let up on the left rein. 

There's a certain amount of coordination that should be developed so that you always carry (in your hand not in the whip holder) your whip.  You do not have your legs as aids when you drive like you do when you ride, so using your whip correctly is very important.  Along with your voice, it's your only means of impulsion.

It is so very important to have proper harness and carriage fit!.  The carriage should not be pulled only by the traces... it needs to be balanced in the tugs so that the weight of the carriage is not pushing down on the horse's back....  way too much to explain in an email, but hope I'm making my point.  I need to put my podium away!  I'm not trying to scare or discourage, just emphasizing the safety issues.  People seem to think that driving is easy...  it's great fun, lots of work, but not easy if done correctly.

I appreciate any and all information... As, I've made pretty clear, I am a complete and total greenhorn about driving.. .. Someone's coming to look at the pony today... keep your fingers crossed for me...

There is an Amish community about 45 min to an hour's drive from here.. Someone suggested that I get them to make a harness for our pony if I wish to get that far.. ..It's something to think about.. Right now, I'm hoping she sells.. My mare would be a beautiful cart horse, but I think she is not harness horse material... She is too silly.

Ridingarocky You might consider a visit to the Amish community; probably there is an Amish horseshoer and/or harness maker who will allow you to ride in a buggy with them to observe the driving of the horse...I have found the majority of the Amish community to be very friendly and helpful in this regard to us "English" Jakey:  I got both of the books when I started and found them both immensely helpful....I had the Diane Gueck video on getting a twh ready to drive and driving, but for me the books worked better.  The Walrond book is so nice and basic and assumes nothing, excellent for a newbie.

And I promise pics today!!!!!!!!!!!!

We live a couple of hours from the Lancaster PA area and through the years have always had good relationships with Amish harness and carriage makers.  We had an Amishman make all our harness for years.  He also worked with a gentleman from our community who drove.  Dan would get picked up at his home with a couple of his kids and sometimes his wife and they would spend a few days out here helping this gentleman.  He would stop by my house if we needed him to measure ponies for new harness or to pick up and drop off new or repaired stuff.

Hey Rose... did you find me a Hackney pony mare yet?  I'm still looking for a broodmare and there aren't many Hackney's in my neck of the woods. 

Jakey: not yet but am going out and about tomorrow, so....

 Do not know what I am doing wrong, but I cannot get the pictures to attach;  will try again later.