It means that the trailer conforms to certain structural standards in the recreational market.

Here is the RVIA web page

http://rvia.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=About_RVIA

Gard

RVIA is a manufacturers association that's all, they also have classes where they will certify a technition for the RV repair/manufacturing business. This is a quote from their site:

"RVIA is a unifying force for safety and professionalism within the RV industry and works with both federal and state government agencies to protect the interests of its members."

TR Arnold is actually a testing organization they will test trailers or certify some one within your organization to test them. The test they conduct are a leakoff test for the plumbing, and a Die-Electric test for the electrical system.

I had a couple of trailers tested by TR Arnold.

 I don't know of any structural standards that RVIA or TR Arnold ensures/verifies?

HWBar, now I'm lost!

I checked the wesites for the RVIA and TR Arnold and the most I get out of it, is they have set standards that have to be in compliance. ie:plumbing, electric, structure and so on.

But who inforces this or checks to make sure everything is in order?  I had a 04 Sooner with a small Stamped Conversion and it had a TR Arnold sticker on it.  We are in the market for a larger trailer and found a conversion package we like, but was told that they was not RVIA certified! 

Some camp grounds will only let you hook up your camper if it has the RVIA sticker on it. We had a truck camper that did not have the label, and were denied the usage of any electrical or water hook ups at one camp grounds. We were told it was a liability/insurance requirement.

I do not have the stickers on either of my LQ trailers. We have never had any problems at any of the various horse shows over many years, but we have never taken our trailers while camping, into a "trailer/RV" park.

Gard

Thanks for the input.  I researched the net on the RVIA and TR Arnold but could not find what I was really looking for.

I am interested in finding information or guide lines that manufactures must follow and/or who to contact or what to do if something was not with in the limits.

The interior package that we like does not show any type of sticker of being certified and was told not to buy one that is not RIVA certified.  So I don't know what to do.  I know I have see alot of these packages around in C&C trailers and everyone I have talked to really like them.

 Again RVIA is a Manufacturers Association, kind of like SEMA is to automotive parts business, or maybe a better description would be a homebuilers association. RVIA is heavily dependant upon manufacturers cash for their operating money, think Fleetwood, Forrest River. ect. RVIA has training programs that RV techs can attend. RVIA certifies these techs. IF you are going to do lets say 10 conversions a year then it cost $X to be a RVIA member, if you are going to do 25 then membership cost more. I have said many times I am not a big fan of RVIA, I think they are looking out for the big guys, I understand that because that's really who pays them.

TR ARNOLD on the other hand is truely a testing organization, they test two things they do a leak off test on the plumbing, then plumbing has to hold a small amount of air pressure for 24 hours. They also do a die-electric test on the electrical system, I am not an expert on this part but I am under the impression it is a test with alot of voltage, very little amperage do tell if there is any concerns for future short circuits. As I said before, I have had 2 trailers tested by TR Arnold, they will travel anywhere to test a trailer(for a fee). I would assume they would travel to test a used one also.

I have built alot of trailers, as I have said above two of them were tested. I have never heard of anyone being turned away from a campground because of not having a sticker. I and the people whom I have built trailers for camp all over the central United States, it could be that these people are just extremly lucky, but I would bet that it's more a myth about the campgrounds checking for stickers.

I would say if you are looking at a used trailer that is not RVIA or Arnold certified and you like the trailer, and the price is fair then buy it, you won't have any issues at the campgrounds.

I beg to differ on the issue of problems with camp grounds.  There are indeed many campgrounds which do not want uncertified rigs plugging into their facilities!

Marla

gard and/or HWBar,

Since both of you seem to have tons of knowledge about these type of things.  If I was to buy a trailer that has a so-called 3rd party that has certified it and something ended up not being right, say the structure part of the trailer or wiring part of the interior package of the trailer.  Then who would need to be contacted to see if that manufacture actually inspected the trailers right during the building process?

The only people I know that actually test a trailer is TR Arnold. RVIA test the techs but they give the stickers to the manufacturers, so maybe I don't understand the question, but the conversion shop is responsible for the interior, the trailer manufacturer is responsible for the structure of the trailer.

Not around here.

they do around here.

we were making some reservations a couple of yrs ago to stay at a nice RV park near West Plains,MO.The second or third thing that the old man that runs it asked me was my rig RIVA certified.

There is a nice campground/RV park at Eureka Springs where we have considered staying also.Same thing there.

We have run into it several times, also. Although our LQ is certified, some of our traveling buddies with homemade LQ's have been placed in primitive parking so they would not be tempted to plug into the hookups. The campgrounds and show grounds always cited the insurance rule.

One place we went to refused to let trailers that had 50 amp service reduce down to 30 amps. They had signs stating that no electrical adapters of any type would be allowed in the RV park. Certified or not. So that made us think about several large trailers we have seen that had two 30 amps hookups instead of one 50 amp. I thought it was so you could use only one AC if only 30 amp service was available. Now I think it may be to give the owner flexibility of where to plug in.

The conversion company that installs your LQ interior has to meet certain standards to qualify as being RVIA certified. Not every conversion will be inspected by RVIA, once they were shown competency standards by the builder. How each company inspects the quality of its employees' labours, would vary from company to company. If there is a problem with their interior, it is their warranty and responsibility to repair any defects. If there is a structural issue with the trailer, that includes its OEM products, then it would be the trailer manufacturer that is responsible for those problems.

They gray area occurs when a conversion company modifies the trailer's structure, in an effort to affix their products. For instance if they cut floor joists out to install holding tanks. If these modifications were not presented to and approved by the trailer manufacturer's engineers, any resulting structural failure would be the responsibility of the conversion company.

I've toured  several conversion companies and was surprised to see the large amount of structure that is removed when slide outs are installed. Using metal cutting tools, a large hole is marked out on the side of the trailer, and the area is unceremoniously removed. When questioned about additional reinforcements being later added, to try to replace the lost structural strength, their replies were universally, "They're strong enough".

I don't know personally, the efforts that RVIA expends in their initial certification and inspections. I suspect that once certified, future inspections are less regular and fewer efforts are presented in doing so. I would think that it would be similar to UL approval, where eventually only spot checks are conducted, to ensure that the companies' quality remains within their standards.

Gard

Another point about RVIA, is that their certification process depends on the conversion companies, to only install the products that RVIA has previously tested and certified. For instance, if a company wanted to install an off brand heater, that may be problematic but less expensive to purchase, it could not do so without RVIA's approval.

The manufacturers of the products used in the installations, are also required to have their products certified. This is one reason you will see common products used by many different companies.

Gard

Hwbar....maybe one day you will have that experience.

Since you are a roper, I will equate it like this: I was a team roper for many years and never once got a finger caught in the rope. But, I personally witnessed it many times.............

Oh, I did not mean you were, (please stay happy!) just that it is great for you to have been fortunate that way... I am fortunate in that I live now in an area like Mayberry RFD, not a red light in the whole county....

Folks in LA would think I was lyin if I said I can get my car tags in 5 minutes and the county judge fletches my arrows for my deer hunting for me......

Hey guys,

I did not want anybody to get into a fight about this.  Sorry if I caused any problems.

Ok, The T.R. Arnold certification insures the end user that your trailer's LQ has been built to a specific standard, tested and is safe to use. We have certain guide lines to follow while building your LQ. From structural to electrical and plumbing. It is not just testing the end product upon completion of work done. It is a standard in which the package is built from the ground up. We have inspectors that come out to make sure everything is followed to their satisfaction.. We have sign off sheets that are followed through out the build to insure each trailer is held to that standard. The wire test is done not once but at least twice during the build. If a wire does not pass the testing we will pull in a new wire and retest. I have personally seen trailers that have burned due to a staple or screw in a wire. Most Dealers and Manufacturers will not use an LQ company if they are not "certified".

It is all about safety and quality...

TR Arnold tested two trailers for me, at a cost of about $1,000 each. They only did one leakdown test and one die-electric test, I did have to leave the electric and plumbing open(not hidden) for inspection.. Both test were done after the trailers were built, with exception to the trim to cover the systems. So I see that there is some assurances with TR Arnold.

That, I have always agreed with, now will someone please tell us what the assurances are from a RVIA sticker. I have said many, many times that a RVIA sticker says nothing about the safety of that particular trailer, a TR Arnold sticker does.

Now I think we are getting somewhere.....

I have been looking all day on websites that has anything to do with the RVIA or inspection or trailers and TR Arnold is the only one that I have seen that actual does the test and or inspection.  I found that the RVIA and a few others like Pacific West Assoc. have tech's or teaches the manufautre to check out the units during the building process. 

Here is something to think about.

Who's to say the guy that is checking that trailer on Monday morning, didn't have a bad weekend and carried his problems to work with him and slacked on his actual job duties to inspect that trailer right!  Instead, he is pissed about his weekend, so he is just going to blow off checking EVERTHING to get through the day and slap a sticker on the side of the trailer.

Gard, To answer your question. no, the inspector is not here to inspect every trailer... He comes every so often. But JBJ is here and works on every trailer with the workers. No LQ is built without him and no trailer leaves here without his final approval. So we do not have to worry about someone coming in after a bad weekend. We are a small mom & pop company and quality is very important to us. I can not tell you how other companies conduct business.

We not only have RVIA codes to follow but state, county and NEC codes along with others.

This is a country that people are free to make their own choices. If anyone feels that they have no need to be certified then that is their right and I do not fault them for their choice. We felt that we needed to be certified and follow the guide lines set forth by the industry not only to better ourselves but to make sure that we had all the knowledge we needed to put out a better, safer product.

I am sorry, I did not want this to become a big ordeal. I was just trying to answer a question.

 I am glad you are responding, someone from the inside of this business with information. I only build a few trailers per year, as a part time job. After a couple of years I decided to check into what it would require to be certified. I called RVIA and their plan was very confusing at best If you were going to build say 10 or less per year is wasn't even fesible. Like I have said many times before they are a trade organization, not a code enforcement organization. When I called TR Arnold they were very helpful, I even got to talk with the actual inspector for my area(he covers a few states), long story short they have a couple of ways to get a sticker on the trailers you build. You can have someone within your company certified by TR Arnold(sounds like JBJ took this route) or you can pay TR Arnold to inspect the trailers one at a time(I chose this route due to volume). I had the option of bringing the trailers to them, or they would come to me for an additional charge, but the trailers actually had an inspection preformed. I offer this to everyone I build a trailer for, I have had 2 people take me up on it.

I would be interested in knowing why JBJ chose to go the TR Arnold route instead of the RVIA route. I looked at JBJ's website and they are doing some very nice work. Thanks for all the insite ASJ.

HWBar, Well, when we decided that we needed to get certified we spoke with both. RVIA was a bit confusing and yes very pricey. T.R. Arnold was very helpfull, straight forward and gave us all the information on the extra testing equipment that we needed, literature and so on.  They have very stricked guide lines and we felt that they were the one to go with. Well worth the investment. They have been GREAT to work with. If you need anything they are there ready to answer any questions. And they keep you up on any changes to the codes. Our inspector is also very knowledgable as well and knows what he is looking at. We are very small and only build one package at a time so we only turn out one or two trailers a week depending to the size.

 It's great that you offer your customer a choice. 

 Good Luck, and I hope you have many trailers in your future. I pray that we all do...

There's nothing to be sorry for!!! You've gone out of your way, monetarily and time wise, to produce a superior product for your customers. You care about their safety. Your certification allows them to use your conversions in every camping facility. You should feel justifiably proud for your accomplishments. By not cutting corners as others do, and by conforming to industry standards, you can rest assured that your customers' safety is paramount.

Thank you for your responses. I'm sure your information will enlighten the forum members, as to the different qualities of interiors that are being produced. Looks aren't the only criteria that should be used in the purchase of a LQ. Safety and structural integrity should be included as well.

Gard

WOW!  Now this is more like it.  We can all get along.

Ok, if a trailer is inspected by a 3rd party company and a problem was to arise that is/was related to or part of the inspection process (something that was over looked or missed) Who would be liable? 

I hadn't thunk of that, are you looking to sue someone?

Not at all.  I found an interior package we like, but have talked ourself out of it because a few people has said not to buy a trailer with an interior package that is not "certified".  Just thinking ahead and out loud here.  If the trailer or interior is not certified, it should be up to the manufacture or installer to make it right if there was a problem.  But I didn't know if the 3rd party company would have any pull to get something fixed if there was a problem with a trailer or interior that they certified.  Or is this like a warranty on a new car and really doesn't mean anything for the most part?

BINGO.

I should have known that. 

Thanks for the help!

Does the government require the certifications on living quarter horse trailers? Are the trailers required to meet FMVSS safety requirements? I hear many different versions on this issue. No one seems to be sure. Any info would be appreciated.

trguy4820

Since there is no actual regulations on trailers or trailers with a LQ package, who's to say Fred Fudpucker buys a trailer, installs a nice looking LQ package then goes by his local dealership and pulls a RVIA or TR Arnold sticker off of a high dollar trailer and slaps on the side of his trailer and calls it "certified"??

I don't see where that is nessasary, the stickers aren't that pretty.

Pacific West and Assoc. is one, but when you check there website it takes you to RV digist.  So I'm not sure if they are an actual company or not.  I have seen there sticker on some steel LQ trailers.

Not about the stickers being pretty.  It is all about being albe to use that unit in an RV park without having any problems. 

Then after all the talk of certified trailers having a higher resale value, it looks like a trailer with no sticker is not going to be worth much money.

I have never had a problem hooking up to power anywhere, as far as the resale goes this trailer was 10 years old when I sold it for $35K.

NO STICKERS, ANYWHERE.

Yes, I did it, 14ft. shortwall in a 1996 4 Star. No Stickers. Sold it to the first person that looked at it.