Posted 2007-11-30 5:04 AM (#72102) Subject: tongue extension or hitch extension
Regular
Posts: 51 Location: Jeddo, MI
I have a bumper pull trailer. I purchased a truck camper which is 8.5 ft on a short bed truck. I need to have the tail gate down. Now the trailer is too close to the truck when I need to make sharp turns. It is fine driving straight or normal turns but I could not make a real sharp turn. My options after a lot of research are the torklift superhitch which is quite costly or extending the tongue on my trailer. I am thinking of having a fabrication shop extend the tongue. I would like feedback from anyone else who has done this and their experience with it. Thanks Debbie
Posted 2007-11-30 8:51 AM (#72110 - in reply to #72102) Subject: RE: tongue extension or hitch extension
Expert
Posts: 5870 Location: western PA
I had the same problem when I was using campers. I did have a full length bed, but the camper still hung over the back and the tailgate had to be removed. I purchased some 2 x 2 stock and had a welder attach a new drop hitch on the end. The new piece was inserted into the receiver and marked for length and drilled for the cross pin. I had a Ford 4 x 4 which sat pretty high and had a good suspension, so there were few problems.
The longer the hitch, the less weight you will be able to carry. Most BP trailers use a rule of thumb that the tongue weight should not exceed 10 percent of their weight. It is also important that when the trailer is loaded, that it is riding fairly level, maybe slightly nose high, with equal weight on both axles. A large nose high or low attitude will result in improper wear and towing characteristics. Your hitch will have to be set up to the correct height with your camper in place and a load on your trailer to duplicate the actual load.
By putting a full sized camper on a short bed, you will already be putting a large load on your rear suspension. Your truck is not set up for this installation and I would highly recommend NOT doing it.
Posted 2007-11-30 9:27 AM (#72117 - in reply to #72102) Subject: RE: tongue extension or hitch extension
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 534 Location: Zionsville, Indiana
For all the reasons that Paul and Gard gave you, please don't do this. We see these once in a while, usually when the system has failed and they want us to put it back together again. We will not repair or install this type of thing in our shop due to liability risk, even on a full sized bed. Your short bed scares me even more.
Posted 2007-11-30 9:56 AM (#72121 - in reply to #72102) Subject: RE: tongue extension or hitch extension
Regular
Posts: 51 Location: Jeddo, MI
are you saying do not do the tongue extension or do not buy the superhitch by torklift. The camper is sunlite made for a short or long bed. I also had air bags installed to help with the weight. torklift makes a superhitch designed to use extensions as needed. I only need 12" more. My question is whether anyone has had a welding fabricator create a longer tongue on their trailer to get the space needed. I really want to know if this is a good idea or spend the money on the torklift system which is 3x more costly. My main concern is that extending the tongue and the safety issue with that option. I have found a fabrication shop who is will to extend the tongue for me. I have weighed the camper, trailer and am under all the weights. I also have wd bars and a sway bar. thanks in advance
Posted 2007-11-30 10:18 AM (#72127 - in reply to #72102) Subject: RE: tongue extension or hitch extension
Expert
Posts: 3802 Location: Rocky Mount N.C.
What make and model is the truck? What kind of WDH is on the truck now, and what weight is the hitch rated at? If it were me and I had to do it.....I would lengthen the trailer tongue and keep the hitching point as near the end of your trucks frame rails as possible. With those hitch extensions the "tail begins to wag the dog"......Until the hitch tear loose from underneath the truck along with the last foot or so of the camper.......And OH! What about those horses in the trailer that about to plow into the 15 passenger van load of little kids from the Catholic school on their way to the old folks home to sing Christmas carols........
Posted 2007-11-30 10:26 AM (#72130 - in reply to #72102) Subject: RE: tongue extension or hitch extension
Regular
Posts: 51 Location: Jeddo, MI
hi-thanks for your input. My truck is a dodge 2006 2500 mega cab diesel. It has a class IV hitch. I also just purchased the heavy duty wd bars and have the reese sway bar also. I have installed the airbags for use when the camper is on. My camper is a sun-lite made for long or short beds according to the specs. When it is loaded the tailgate needs to be down. I am able to pull this with no extension but am worried if I ever were to get into a spot where I had to jack knife the unit I would not be able to get that much of a turn out of it. I also don't like the idea of the extension but wanted to know if anyone has had their horse trailers tongue extended to help in a situation like this. My main concern and only concern is the safety of the horses and others on the road. I am wanting feedback on the tongue extensions if anyone has ever done that. thanks you in advance.
Posted 2007-11-30 10:34 AM (#72134 - in reply to #72102) Subject: RE: tongue extension or hitch extension
Elite Veteran
Posts: 714 Location: Minnesota
The problem with extending the tongue, is tha the trailer was engineered for that length of tongue. Now you are changing that. Where does the weight distribution of the trailer go to?
Posted 2007-11-30 10:43 AM (#72137 - in reply to #72102) Subject: RE: tongue extension or hitch extension
Regular
Posts: 51 Location: Jeddo, MI
I don't have a clue where the weight goes....I am new to this and would like to know if anyone has ever done this. The fabrication shop sees no problem with this but I am seeing if anyone on here has ever extended the tongue on their trailer and would like their feedback as to how they did it and how did it haul after completion. I talked with the manufacturer of the trailer and they said the trailer could be ordered that way but they do not do aftermarket work. They said the frame would be longer and the front of the trailer would be set back approx 18" farther than normal. But since I am not ordering a new trailer I am looking for feedback on this process after market. thanks for your input. Debbie
Posted 2007-11-30 10:43 AM (#72139 - in reply to #72102) Subject: RE: tongue extension or hitch extension
Expert
Posts: 5870 Location: western PA
I would favour getting the trailer's tongue extended rather than having an extended hitch installed. The truck will ride and set differently with the camper installed. You may be able to have your welder account for this difference, when he fabricates the new tongue, to assure the proper trailer ride height.
I have never seen an 8 1/2' camper properly installed on a short bed truck. I saw a long camper/ short bed combination being moved once when it was being transported a short distance to another location. The back of the camper is not being properly supported by the bed and the front will tend to lift with any head wind.
At different times I've had an 8', an 8 1/2' and a 10' camper. Both campers that extended past my truck bed greatly effected the truck's stability when it was hit by cross winds or big rigs when they were passing. On one occasion my wife was greatly frightened when a cross wind pushed her completely onto the shoulder of a bridge. These were the very reasons we bought a LQ trailer.
There is so much weight being added behind the rear suspension, that it will seriously stress the suspension components. Adding the dynamics of towing a trailer to the equation will only compound an already serious safety problem. You are going to encounter serious stability issues.
Your truck was never designed to handle this type of loading, and even with all the add ons you mentioned, YOU WILL NOT have a safe, stable 65mph ride. I've been there and done it. Please don't do anything that will jeopardize the health of your most precious occupants.
Posted 2007-11-30 11:07 AM (#72142 - in reply to #72102) Subject: RE: tongue extension or hitch extension
Regular
Posts: 51 Location: Jeddo, MI
thanks for your input. The manufacturer sun lite made this model for short bed and long beds. the center of gravity is over the axle on the truck. I have the torklift tie downs. The camper does not move. I have hauled it down the express way and never noticed any sway with the tie downs I have. I just wonder if anyone out there has ever fabricated an extension on their trailer tongue after market. I have pulled my truck with camper and horse trailer. It hauls beautifully but like I mentioned a really tight turn would not be possible with the distance between truck and trailer. Just curious about the tongue extension. thanks Debbie
Posted 2007-12-02 1:10 PM (#72255 - in reply to #72102) Subject: RE: tongue extension or hitch extension
Member
Posts: 6
Location: Chardon ohio 44024
ok we know that you have a short-bed pickup. Is it a crew cab, extended cab, or a regular cab? If you have a regular cab pickup the wheel base is very close and if you would decide to extend your toung on the trailer you increce the toung weight excessivly and even with a weight distribution system, it would definitally make the frount of your truck seam lighter. And in turn,it may cause handeling problems. Second of all, if you have an all alluminum tralier or a steel tralier, to extend the toung, you most likely have to strengthin the frame of the tralier to at least the front of the axels so you would not have structual problems with the tralier. I definitally do not recommend using an extender off the hitch. I think that you would be better off , going with a gooseneck with an LQ or etting a long bed pickup.
Posted 2007-12-02 2:59 PM (#72263 - in reply to #72102) Subject: RE: tongue extension or hitch extension
New User
Posts: 1
Location: sw mi
Hi Debbie. Years ago l did exactly what you're talking to your fabricator about and it worked absolutely perfectly...no problems whatsoever even when hauling a friends two untrained 'thrashers'! My trailer then was a W-W 4-horse stock, and the tongue was extended about 30". DO it! You'll love the way it handles and so will your Cummins. Grant
Posted 2007-12-02 10:58 PM (#72280 - in reply to #72139) Subject: RE: tongue extension or hitch extension
Expert
Posts: 3853 Location: Vermont
Originally written by gard on 2007-11-30 10:43 AM
I would favour getting the trailer's tongue extended rather than having an extended hitch installed. The truck will ride and set differently with the camper installed. You may be able to have your welder account for this difference, when he fabricates the new tongue, to assure the proper trailer ride height.
I have never seen an 8 1/2' camper properly installed on a short bed truck. I saw a long camper/ short bed combination being moved once when it was being transported a short distance to another location. The back of the camper is not being properly supported by the bed and the front will tend to lift with any head wind.
At different times I've had an 8', an 8 1/2' and a 10' camper. Both campers that extended past my truck bed greatly effected the truck's stability when it was hit by cross winds or big rigs when they were passing. On one occasion my wife was greatly frightened when a cross wind pushed her completely onto the shoulder of a bridge. These were the very reasons we bought a LQ trailer.
There is so much weight being added behind the rear suspension, that it will seriously stress the suspension components. Adding the dynamics of towing a trailer to the equation will only compound an already serious safety problem. You are going to encounter serious stability issues.
Your truck was never designed to handle this type of loading, and even with all the add ons you mentioned, YOU WILL NOT have a safe, stable 65mph ride. I've been there and done it. Please don't do anything that will jeopardize the health of your most precious occupants.
BOL Gard
While I agree with you in principle...Even though it is definitely the safer solution...Extending the tongue of a trailer could really skew its towing geometry and move it C.G. closer to the tongue and potentially overload it...
Posted 2007-12-02 11:35 PM (#72288 - in reply to #72102) Subject: RE: tongue extension or hitch extension
Expert
Posts: 5870 Location: western PA
Paul, for the record, I've said twice now that I think this combination is wrong. I removed my family from a similar situation because I found out how unsafe it was. I would not want anyone hurt, when it could have been avoided, had I spoken about the dangers involved.
This rig can and may be built; it might go down the road. I can't predict the future, only relate the past. What another person does with that information is his concern. I don't pretend to know all the answers, and won't preach to those who have a better idea.
I'm surprised that the welder/fabricator is willing to assume the responsibility of any liability issues that may arise from this set up. It certainly is going to be a mixed bag of responsibility, should a negative event occur because of the modification of dbelling's equipment.
Deep pockets would include the truck manuf, the trailer manuf, probably the camper manuf, the welder, and the owner/operator, with each denying responsibility. The only winners will be the attorneys.
Posted 2007-12-02 11:46 PM (#72291 - in reply to #72288) Subject: RE: tongue extension or hitch extension
Expert
Posts: 3853 Location: Vermont
Originally written by gard on 2007-12-02 11:35 PM
Paul, for the record, I've said twice now that I think this combination is wrong. I removed my family from a similar situation because I found out how unsafe it was. I would not want anyone hurt, when it could have been avoided, had I spoken about the dangers involved.
This rig can and may be built; it might go down the road. I can't predict the future, only relate the past. What another person does with that information is his concern. I don't pretend to know all the answers, and won't preach to those who have a better idea.
I'm surprised that the welder/fabricator is willing to assume the responsibility of any liability issues that may arise from this set up. It certainly is going to be a mixed bag of responsibility, should a negative event occur because of the modification of dbelling's equipment.
Deep pockets would include the truck manuf, the trailer manuf, probably the camper manuf, the welder, and the owner/operator, with each denying responsibility. The only winners will be the attorneys.
Posted 2007-12-03 5:21 AM (#72296 - in reply to #72263) Subject: RE: tongue extension or hitch extension
Regular
Posts: 51 Location: Jeddo, MI
I am glad to get a response from someone who actually did this to their trailer and it worked fine. I appreciate the others also but getting a new truck doesn't work for me. I just purchased this one....I am pretty sure a Dodge 2006 Ram 2500 Diesel with upgraded towing package and added air bags to the suspension can handle hauling a two horse bumper pull trailer with a sun lite truck camper (made for short bed or long bed). I have checked all the weights and ratings and am within range. I really didn't like the idea of adding the extended hitch which they make them. Reese and Torklift seem to be the leaders in extensions. I preferred the idea of the tongue extension and wanted feedback from others that have done this. Thanks again for all of your time. I will run all these opinions by my fabricator to make sure he considers these concerns from you all.....thanks again Debbie
Posted 2013-06-04 11:40 AM (#152457 - in reply to #72296) Subject: RE: tongue extension or hitch extension
New User
Posts: 1
Debbie,
I am looking into doing this on my trailer as I also have an extended camper and would like to camp with the horses. Did you get this done and if so how did it work out for you? I found the following website: http://www.pbase.com/jimthode/trailerext
I also prefer the idea of the tongue extension as opposed to the hitch from the truck extended.
tongue extension or hitch extension
"tail begins to wag the dog"......Until the hitch tear loose from underneath the truck along with the last foot or so of the camper.......And OH! What about those horses in the trailer that about to plow into the 15 passenger van load of little kids from the Catholic school on their way to the old folks home to sing Christmas carols........
