Posted 2005-10-27 4:09 PM (#32418 - in reply to #32416) Subject: RE: $3.45 for Fuel
Expert
Posts: 2689
Yesterday I filled up in Mass at $2.83.9
I then drove NORTH through New Hampshire and into Maine, it was $2.66.9 about 200 miles farther from "The Refinery Belt".
Posted 2005-10-27 4:12 PM (#32419 - in reply to #32179) Subject: RE: $3.45 for Fuel
Expert
Posts: 1989 Location: South Central OK
I think we'll find car/gas/insurance/tax prices rise and that will force lower income people into public transportation. I think cars will be for the upper middle class and above. The poor old boy that works in his truck may also live in it too...
Hopefully more people will take the train/bus/light rail and heaven forbid they CARPOOL!
Texas has an epidemic...people that can't be without their car, like they'll lose every freedom ever known to mankind. They charge more for gas in Texas because we are dumb enough to buy it...we'll pay any price!
Posted 2005-10-27 4:22 PM (#32420 - in reply to #32179) Subject: RE: $3.45 for Fuel
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1160 Location: Denver Colorado
The US has over produced food for decades, with government set aside programs to lower production. Like the soil bank from the Great Depression, the gov pays incentives in the Conservation Reserve Program too for farmers to quit farming land and plant back to native grass. This is millions of acres in CRP. So we do have a farm ground reserve. I don't have the exact figures, but even if it helped 20-30% which is possible, we can become less independent on Venezuela, Iran, etc. Australia, Brazil, and Canada have enormous farm raising capacity that's not in production. I still think growing a renewable energy has a better future than looking for the last dinosaur graveyard to pump crewd from. We could even get the tobacco farmers to switch to a fuel crop with less gov incentives for growing less tobacco.
Posted 2005-10-27 4:37 PM (#32421 - in reply to #32420) Subject: RE: $3.45 for Fuel
Expert
Posts: 2689
Originally written by MrTruck on 2005-10-27 4:22 PM
The US has over produced food for decades, with government set aside programs to lower production. Like the soil bank from the Great Depression, the gov pays incentives in the Conservation Reserve Program too for farmers to quit farming land and plant back to native grass. This is millions of acres in CRP. So we do have a farm ground reserve. I don't have the exact figures, but even if it helped 20-30% which is possible, we can become less independent on Venezuela, Iran, etc. Australia, Brazil, and Canada have enormous farm raising capacity that's not in production. I still think growing a renewable energy has a better future than looking for the last dinosaur graveyard to pump crewd from. We could even get the tobacco farmers to switch to a fuel crop with less gov incentives for growing less tobacco.
Given the "success" in getting poppy farmers to switch to less profitable crops in other countries, I doubt the US would have ANY chance of getting it's own tobacco growers to switch to ANYTHING. Constitutional freedoms, etc.
I s'pose a few invasions of countries with idle farm land... maybe, maybe not (-:
"Enforced free market" doesn't sound any better than "Enforced democracy".
Posted 2005-10-27 4:52 PM (#32423 - in reply to #32179) Subject: RE: $3.45 for Fuel
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1160 Location: Denver Colorado
I not proposing that we invade Canada, Australia or Brazil and force folks to farm. We trade with those countries now and they are better trade partners than Iran or Venezuela. Canada has just entered a trade agreement to sell China oil. The American farmers are an ambitious bunch, they can crank up production, plant the CRP and maybe with a bigger bio diesel and ethanol market, finally get a decent price for crops. My friends that farm, are getting the same price per bushel for wheat and corn as the did in the seventies. Back when their $250,000 combine only cost $10,000 and farm fuel was $.40 gal. I'd hate to go 30 years without a raise, only being able to make more by being for efficient and productive. Every week in the local farm paper, you still see way to many farm sales. The only farmers that are left where I grew up, are the ones that inherited the land. Food is too cheap.
Posted 2005-10-27 9:39 PM (#32436 - in reply to #32179) Subject: RE: $3.45 for Fuel
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1160 Location: Denver Colorado
If elected, I promise to drink more renewable beer. Friend of mine bought the book too on making your own diesel. So we may be setting up the still an my house. Got to find a used water heater and some thick rubber gloves for the lye. Maybe we can get a grant from the Energy Bill. But I am going to drive the 7 miles to the nearest bio diesel station from now on. Take that, Venezuela
Posted 2005-10-28 6:25 AM (#32439 - in reply to #32436) Subject: RE: $3.45 for Fuel
Expert
Posts: 2689
Originally written by MrTruck on 2005-10-27 9:39 PM
If elected, I promise to drink more renewable beer. Friend of mine bought the book too on making your own diesel. So we may be setting up the still an my house. Got to find a used water heater and some thick rubber gloves for the lye. Maybe we can get a grant from the Energy Bill. But I am going to drive the 7 miles to the nearest bio diesel station from now on. Take that, Venezuela
Sorry, there will be no space to grow barley (-:
B'sides, the tractor fuel is needed for planting and harvesting vegetable oil crops. {Strategically critical resource, whatever}
Hmmm, maybe a waste by-product that could be fermented... almost anything with "starch" that can be converted to sugar and then fermented. It won't be beer as you know it today, but everyone will be asked to make sacrifices in such dire times. Ooops, glycerol is about the only useful by-product, so I guess we're back to "No beer".
Would the Aussies give up their Fosters to grow veggie oils for the US ?
I doubt it - still no beer.
Canadians - their Molson ?, Nope.
? (-:
How about SOME beer - INSTEAD of driving ?
Ahhh, Balances.
Posted 2005-10-28 9:38 AM (#32451 - in reply to #32179) Subject: RE: $3.45 for Fuel
Expert
Posts: 3802 Location: Rocky Mount N.C.
".........almost anything with starch can be converted to sugar and then fermented." Well my last batch of dress shirts from the cleaners should do well to get a start on producing a fine beverage or motor fuel! Think they stumped their toe when they starched and presses those shirts, rattle like dry leaves and feel like them too. You could use the barley for fermentation, for drinking and driving and then use the mash for home heating or to feed livestock........or me. Any of you ever had the privilage to partake of a glass of persimmon beer?
Posted 2005-10-28 1:10 PM (#32466 - in reply to #32423) Subject: RE: $3.45 for Fuel
Expert
Posts: 1723 Location: michigan
food is too cheap-
Well ok fine. But I might remind you that not to long ago the price of milk jumped dramatically. The stores in our area had to post flyers explaining the cost to angry consumers. People love to feel sorry for the farmers until the price of beef, pork or chicken goes up then suddenly you guys lose that loving feeling for us.
You should be GLAD and THANKFUl food is not only plentiful and cheap. But if you still feel badly and want to help, just send you CASH contributions to the Farmbabe Fund for Underprivelged Farmers....
Posted 2005-10-28 1:39 PM (#32469 - in reply to #32179) Subject: RE: $3.45 for Fuel
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1160 Location: Denver Colorado
Ok, I'll call Willy, see if we can do a Horse/Farm Aid in Michigan. Imagine Willy Nelson and I on stage together, "On the road again, just can't wait to get on the road again." Wonder if he knows anything about fermenting or veggie oil fuel. Always seems so smokey in his bus. He use to raise hogs, so I'm sure he understands methane gas.
$3.45 for Fuel
