O.K. For those of you who really thought I didn't know what I was talking about on my Featherlite trailer floor. I knew that this was way too much corrosion for a trailer this new!!
So, I spoke with someone who KNOWS trailers from the ground up! He told me that alot of companies were having problems with their trailer floors. His company sent some trailers to different labs to see what was going on. Turns out it is the carbon content of the rubber mats!!!!!! The mats are recycled tire rubber and have a high carbon content that some how reacts with aluminum and causes electrolysis (sic). He said everyone found this out and NOW use different mats!!! Most companies fixed their trailers but not Featherlite!!!!
Posted 2007-05-30 4:51 PM (#61503 - in reply to #61496) Subject: RE: Carbon content in rubber mats
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Originally written by mshal on 2007-05-30 3:35 PM
O.K. For those of you who really thought I didn't know what I was talking about on my Featherlite trailer floor. I knew that this was way too much corrosion for a trailer this new!!
So, I spoke with someone who KNOWS trailers from the ground up! He told me that alot of companies were having problems with their trailer floors. His company sent some trailers to different labs to see what was going on. Turns out it is the carbon content of the rubber mats!!!!!! The mats are recycled tire rubber and have a high carbon content that some how reacts with aluminum and causes electrolysis (sic). He said everyone found this out and NOW use different mats!!! Most companies fixed their trailers but not Featherlite!!!!
So everyone knew this but us!!!!!
IF TRUE (yeah, IF) it MIGHT go part way to explaining why the problem seems to be more prevalent on the lower priced trailers.
I'm not yet convinced of the chemistry, but leaving that aside for a moment - - Oh, there's a chemist with a Master's degree somewhere on the board, we could ask him/her (-:
Posted 2007-05-30 4:55 PM (#61504 - in reply to #61496) Subject: RE: Carbon content in rubber mats
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OH OH lets do!!!! I know someone who is having his al. boat bottem redone and they are putting a new prop that has zinc ( I think) plates on it to stop electrolysis on his boat!!!!
Posted 2007-05-30 5:09 PM (#61506 - in reply to #61504) Subject: RE: Carbon content in rubber mats
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Originally written by mshal on 2007-05-30 4:55 PM
OH OH lets do!!!! I know someone who is having his al. boat bottem redone and they are putting a new prop that has zinc ( I think) plates on it to stop electrolysis on his boat!!!!
THAT is known good (applied) science, sacrificial anodes, etc.
I found 'em in the Volvo MANY years ago, BIG chunks of zinc.
Actually it is probably the prop that is aluminum and they bolt a chunk of zinc on the outdrive.
Thar agin, REAL boats don't have aluminum props - OR outdrives (-:
Posted 2007-05-30 11:36 PM (#61540 - in reply to #61496) Subject: RE: Carbon content in rubber mats
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Retired from work as an engineer/chemist, doing failure analysis of dissimilar materials used in the marine industry.
Believe, there is, at the very best, a small probability of extremely weak interactions between aluminum and carbon atoms. What you need to add to the equation is the urine, then you might get a reaction between the aluminum and the carbon. But, again, it's going to be a pretty weak reaction. Something on the order of creation of a filmy substance. So, without doing some actual experiments, believe that the problem with a high carbon content mat is that the mat might deteriorate too rapidly.
Given the way most small business' are run, I highly doubt that any funds have been invested by the trailer manufacturers in testing the theory of a carbon aluminum interaction.
Probably, the real question to ask is WHAT is the grade/type of aluminum being used for the flooring, and take it from there.
Posted 2007-06-01 3:12 PM (#61622 - in reply to #61496) Subject: RE: Carbon content in rubber mats
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Too l Ranch,
I guess it is hard for me to believe that this happened so quickly and completely!!! Several different things have been brought up. The carbon, the quality of al., the thinkness of Al. , the Al. being flat with no ridges and interlocking so no way to drain, and on and on!
The main thing is my horse did not fall through and Featherlite has lost a long time customer!!!! My trailer is in the shop w/ a Rumber floor being installed ( on my dime!!!) ! Lesson learned ! BUT, if I can stop someone from making the same mistake I did, then I will!!!
Posted 2007-06-01 8:33 PM (#61639 - in reply to #61622) Subject: RE: Carbon content in rubber mats
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I think carbon is basically what makes rubber hard and "usable" in things like tires and floor mats. High carbon to low carbon, I doubt that the concentrations are THAT different between virgin rubber mats and ones made of recycled tires.
I really DO think that this is an alloy issue and in order to have some basis from which to discuss it with the dealer and manufacturer I would get some scrapings to an independent lab.
Posted 2007-06-02 6:30 AM (#61652 - in reply to #61496) Subject: RE: Carbon content in rubber mats
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Hay Reg,
Dropped off the crappy F'lite at Dream Coach factory to have the rumber floor installed. Went through the factory and was very impressed! So, I just traded the F'lite in on a Dream coach with the Rumber floor ( 20 freaking year warranty on it!!) After looking at DC's and the F'lite side by side, it was like comparing apples to oranges, not even close to the same!!! I know F'lite is a huge company and DC isn't but the attention to detail and the hands on management sure impressed me! Maybe bigger isn't better!!!!
Thank you Ron at Dream Coach and Tom Burks at Pine Belt trailers!!! These guiys did not try to sell me a new trailer, they just tried to help me fix mine. But after I saw the DC's up close I wanted one!!!!
Besides, I am sure that F'lite knows that the Al. in their trailers is sub-par. My mail box is full of folks who have one that the floor is gone!! But F'lite is not going to fix them, so if you are planning on buying a trailer that you want to last more than a few years look at other brands!!! I chose Dream Coach for their customer service to someone who was not even a customer!!!! F'lite could sure learn some things from them!!!
Posted 2007-06-02 9:17 AM (#61660 - in reply to #61496) Subject: RE: Carbon content in rubber mats
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CONGRATS !
I hope you will be very happy with your new trailer.
I may be overly analytical and wallet sensitive, but I think before sealing the deal I would have got those scrapings from the floor of the old trailer - and separately a few samples from the floor of the new one, not too near the welds. Off to the lab, A vs B, which alloy sample is which ?
If no difference I would be VERY reluctant to sign up for a trailer with the same material in the floor, regardless of the manufacturer.
I guess an underlying question is whether or not they're all using the same material, from the same (cheapest ?) mill.
Posted 2007-06-02 4:09 PM (#61683 - in reply to #61496) Subject: RE: Carbon content in rubber mats
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Reg, the new trailer has a Rumber floor so there is no Al on the floor except for the cross members under it!
Featherlite made it plain that they couldn't care less if my horses fell through the floor or not!!!! Every time I hooked to that dang thing I would have been mad! So, I got rid of it!!!
And no, not everyone uses the same floor cause I have never had this happen and neither has any one I know!!!! And the thing that is really sucky is this was their "Big Horse" posed to be the stongest one they make for extra big horses!!!!
No need for metal scapings, Featherlite knows what they use and they know how many folks are having problems!! They just don't care!!!
Posted 2007-06-07 6:28 PM (#61968 - in reply to #61711) Subject: RE: Carbon content in rubber mats
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Every so often an Engineering Manager has to remind an Engineer who is having difficulty solving a problem that the "despite" might actually be the "because".
With this in mind I remembered that there have been several "corroded floor" threads in which owners have said (paraphrased) that their floors have corroded DESPITE the fact that they bed deep with shavings.
I have said that I don't use shavings, but do wash out after every use and my floors are fine.
Without a Master's in organic chemistry I got to wondering what might get leached out of wood shavings, typically pine, by horse urine.
In other words, it might not be the urine, it might not be the particular aluminum alloy, it might not be the shavings - but it MIGHT be whatever is leached out of pine shavings by horse urine THEN acting on the aluminum.
IOW the "despite" could be the "because".
Thoughts ?
Organic chemists ?
Research students needing a summer project ?
Anyone ?
Posted 2007-06-07 11:58 PM (#61996 - in reply to #61968) Subject: RE: Carbon content in rubber mats
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Sounds good to me. I've only used shavings once and that was when I moved up here from S. Tx. It was a big hassle to clean and it seemed like the trailer stayed wet the whole trip instead of drying out like it usually did.
Posted 2007-06-08 7:54 AM (#62001 - in reply to #61996) Subject: RE: Carbon content in rubber mats
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Posts: 2953 Location: North Carolina
Originally written by Terri on 2007-06-07 10:58 PM
Sounds good to me. I've only used shavings once and that was when I moved up here from S. Tx. It was a big hassle to clean and it seemed like the trailer stayed wet the whole trip instead of drying out like it usually did.
This post by Terri may have the cause nailed. ...
"trailer stayed wet the whole trip instead of drying out..."
I would think that the corrosion requires the presence of moisture. If the urine and manure is dry, the corrosion process stops. Bedding "deep" is actually bad for trailers unless the trailer is cleaned and allowed to dry under the mats.
Posted 2007-06-08 9:35 AM (#62009 - in reply to #61683) Subject: RE: Carbon content in rubber mats
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Location: ipswich ma.
i have a 2005 featherlite 9406, big horse ?, my floor after 1.5 yrs has already deveoped holes in it, i don't use shavings most of the time ( i think it encourages the horse to pee), but if the horse did pee in it, i hosed it out when i got home, i have been told that this happened because i didn't use shavings to soak up the urine, even with shavings the urine still makes it to the floor its called gravity, why does featherlite put the rubber mats so there is a joint right below were the horse urinates? they should have a one piece mat with no joints if the urine is that much of a problem with aluminum, besides the floor, i can honestly say this trailer is poorly made for horses, the overall quality is horrible, if anyone else has the 9406 do you notice that the butt and breast bars are alittle low?, this trailer is for big horses, not 14h qt horses, the windows leakmy sympathy for anyone who buys a featherlite
Posted 2007-06-08 10:26 AM (#62013 - in reply to #61496) Subject: RE: Carbon content in rubber mats
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Not a Featherlite owner but an ex-owner of another brand who seems (based on Internet postings) to have had its share of corrosion issues - and I got the same line as 'next' did - you must bed deeply with "sawdust" and remove mats and hose out the trailer after "every" use. I used Cedar shavings in as big a flake as I could get in an attempt to keep the dust to a minimum.
In my uneducated, humble opinion, I believe that it is an alloy issue. In the case of my trailer, it seemed to be years 2000-2003 that were effected - and three of us (that I've "met" so far) had the same floor plan. I wonder if in an attempt to increase or maintain margin on trailer sales with rising costs of metals, the alloy was changed to a slightly less expensive version without the realization of the downside of that change (or at least I hope they didn't realize it...I'm sure they do now). Typically if one follows the money trail they find the answer...
Disclaimer: the above is pure speculation on my part based in what strikes me as the logical answer....
Posted 2007-06-08 11:31 AM (#62020 - in reply to #62009) Subject: RE: Carbon content in rubber mats
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Hay, That is the same trailer I had, a 3 horse w/LQ big horse! Sad to see on a trailer that was made for "BIG" horses!!!I Did bed deeply, cleaned after each use and pulled the mats several times a year!!! Seems Featherlite changes thier story from person to person! Told me I should have pulled the mats after every use!!!! They know they have a problem and I am shocked they are so flippant about it!
Posted 2007-06-08 12:04 PM (#62026 - in reply to #62022) Subject: RE: Carbon content in rubber mats
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Originally written by Terri on 2007-06-08 9:39 AM
This is all very interesting to those of us who have steel trailers and an old "wood" floor. : )
That's what I have and I'm glad. A board starts to go bad and you replace the board. No welding or specialized skills required.
Yes it is...guess what my new trailer has...yup, wood! Easy to tell if something is going wrong and easy to fix - plus less vibration transferred to the horses during travel. Not to mention the floor is specifically waranteed for 'life' (defined as the length of time I own the trailer). Hard to beat!
Posted 2007-06-09 12:24 PM (#62061 - in reply to #61496) Subject: RE: Carbon content in rubber mats
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Location: Burleson, TX
I have an Equispirit with a steel frame and aluminum skin and wood floor supported by steel. It is a 2000 model and still looks great. The best of both worlds. If I buy a new, the only thing I'll change is I like the Rumber floor to do away with pulling mats. These are quality built trailers. until recently, the Equispirit was made by Hawk. Now they have split and you get more features included on the Equispirit, but both are good trailers. Just my observation. :0)
Carbon content in rubber mats
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