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Floor pitting????

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mshal
Reg. Jan 2007
Posted 2007-05-26 8:56 PM (#61285)
Subject: Floor pitting????


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O.K. I don't pull the mats every three months but I do a couple times a year. Wash both floor and mats ( both sides) let all dry before putting back in. Just did the same today and had HOLES in floor!!!!!! I do bed very deep and pick trailer after each use. This is an 02 trailer and I have never seen anything like it before!! I just hauled a horse this week w/it and would have died if he fell through the floor! Has anyone else seen this on a well maintained fairly new trailer????
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mshal
Reg. Jan 2007
Posted 2007-05-27 5:59 AM (#61291 - in reply to #61285)
Subject: RE: Floor pitting????


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Am I the only one this has happened to?????
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Reg
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2007-05-27 7:10 AM (#61293 - in reply to #61291)
Subject: RE: Floor pitting????


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Originally written by mshal on 2007-05-27 5:59 AM

Am I the only one this has happened to?????


Probably not, but it might be unreasonable to expect overnight responses to your question on week-ends.

I rarely pull the mats now and I no longer use shavings.
I do wash thoroughly the same day, or the next day at the latest.
I get a LOT of water under the mats, I suspect that a lot of it stays there for quite a while, any residual urine would be VERY dilute.
The Jamco trailer has a somewhat more thorough drainage system than the 4-Star, but neither one has floor corrosion problems.
It is POSSIBLE that the floor of your trailer has a low corrosion resistant alloy, I suppose you could take scrapings and have a lab determine if that is the case, but I don't know what recourse you would have against the dealer or manufacturer if you actually "proved" something.
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mshal
Reg. Jan 2007
Posted 2007-05-27 7:58 AM (#61295 - in reply to #61285)
Subject: RE: Floor pitting????


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It has a six year warranty. Will call them on Tues. to see what they say!!! Sorry to seem impatient but I really FREAKED when I pulled the mats. I hauled my show horse in this trailer last week!!! If he had broke through the floor I would have died!!!!
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Reg
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2007-05-27 8:44 AM (#61297 - in reply to #61295)
Subject: RE: Floor pitting????


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Originally written by mshal on 2007-05-27 7:58 AM

It has a six year warranty. Will call them on Tues. to see what they say!!! Sorry to seem impatient but I really FREAKED when I pulled the mats. I hauled my show horse in this trailer last week!!! If he had broke through the floor I would have died!!!!


It would be interesting to know what the 6 year warranty covers.
Typically "defects in materials or workmanship (construction)" is about it.
Arguably choosing the WRONG materials and bad/poor design aren't covered, though a lawyer might help you with definitions of things like "suitability for purpose".
There are probably "Customer care responsibilities" written into the warranty as well, e.g. if you don't clean it properly and it corrodes, they have an 'out'.

Good luck, this could be a long up hill battle.
I would probably cut my losses early on and start calling Yarde Metals, YMMV.
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mshal
Reg. Jan 2007
Posted 2007-05-27 8:48 AM (#61298 - in reply to #61285)
Subject: RE: Floor pitting????


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Be kind of hard to cut my losses, this is a three horse w/ a full Bunk House living quarters! I would think for what we paid for it, it should last longer than 5 years! I wonder what my horse insurance company would have said if my horses fell through the floor!!!  I've had old steel trailers w/ wood floors last longer than this one!
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Jbsny
Reg. Apr 2004
Posted 2007-05-27 9:20 AM (#61300 - in reply to #61285)
Subject: RE: Floor pitting????


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Is this common with certain brands?  A friend of mine bought an alum trailer and had the same thing, she cleaned the trailer out with a hose every time, pulled the mats.. stored the trailer over the winter and when she pulled the mats, there were pits to where she could see through the floor.

Alum floors are one reason I won't buy an all alum trailer.  I like Dream Coach.. I think they are all alum with a wood/rumber floor choice. 

I usually buy a composite, steel/alum to get the features I want, fiberglass roof with a wood or rumber floor. I don't like that the roof gets hot without insulation.  My friend had an uninsulated trailer and when we would unload after a trip on a sunny day, even with the windows all open, vents, too.. the horses were always hot.. esp if we had to stop for an accident or construction.

I would love if all-alum trailer companies would offer the options of having fiberglass and lumber.

Jbsny

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PaulChristenson
Reg. Jan 2007
Posted 2007-05-27 11:02 AM (#61301 - in reply to #61285)
Subject: RE: Floor pitting????


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Are you sure the pitting is from the inside out??

You didn't post where you are from...so the next question is...

Have you done a thorough examination of the underside of the trailer??...could you be looking at an exterior corrosion event??



Edited by PaulChristenson 2007-05-27 11:07 AM
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Reg
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2007-05-27 12:02 PM (#61307 - in reply to #61301)
Subject: RE: Floor pitting????


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Originally written by PaulChristenson on 2007-05-27 11:02 AM

Are you sure the pitting is from the inside out??

You didn't post where you are from...so the next question is...

Have you done a thorough examination of the underside of the trailer??...could you be looking at an exterior corrosion event??



Those thoughts crossed my mind too, however,,,,,,,,,
We can probably assume that it isn't a crappy 1xxx or 2xxx series alloy - and that it SHOULD be built to be OK anywhere in the US, even up here in New England - the land of salt encrusted roads.
I wouldn't accept any crap about "usual seasonal use" either, I run both of my trailers year round - Pee from the inside, salt from the outside, the right alloys can take this.

Not (implicitly) brand bashing, but 4-Star and Jamco seem to be using "the right stuff" - I can't vouch for others.

By "cut losses early" I meant I would get busy measuring, figure the cost and weight of putting 1/4 inch plate (appropriate alloy) over it and plug welding it in the right places, drill drains as needed, etc.
IOW, if it is to be a project it might as well be a mechanical project as well as a legal one.
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mshal
Reg. Jan 2007
Posted 2007-05-27 2:09 PM (#61309 - in reply to #61285)
Subject: RE: Floor pitting????


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I am from Ms. and believe me, one FLAKE of snow and the entire state shuts down!!! Trailer has never been pulled in snow or ice, so I don't think road salt is the cause!

I don't want to say the brand until I talk to the company and see if they are going to honor the warranty.

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TERP
Reg. Sep 2006
Posted 2007-05-27 10:00 PM (#61329 - in reply to #61285)
Subject: RE: Floor pitting????


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Try WERM flooring. Cheaper than rumber and it will solve all your problems. WWW.SOFDEK.COM
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PaulChristenson
Reg. Jan 2007
Posted 2007-05-27 10:05 PM (#61330 - in reply to #61285)
Subject: RE: Floor pitting????


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Pitting corrosion

Corrosion of aluminum in the passive range is localized, usually manifested by random formation of pits. The pitting potential principle establishes the conditions under which metals in the passive state are subject to corrosion by pitting.

For aluminum, pitting corrosion is most commonly produced by halide ions, of which chloride (Cl -) is the most frequently encountered in service. Pitting of aluminum in halide solutions open to the air occurs because, in the presence of oxygen, the metal is readily polarized to its pitting potential.

Generally, aluminum does not develop pitting in aerated solutions of most nonhalide salts because its pitting potential in these solutions is considerably more noble (cathodic) than in halide solutions and it is not polarized to these potentials in normal service.

So in MS, how close are you to salt water...such as the Gulf??

You might also see if your unit is subject to stray electrical activity...

 

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mshal
Reg. Jan 2007
Posted 2007-05-27 10:25 PM (#61333 - in reply to #61285)
Subject: RE: Floor pitting????


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I wish!!!! I am up near the Tn. line!
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Reg
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2007-05-28 6:31 AM (#61338 - in reply to #61285)
Subject: RE: Floor pitting????


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I dunno Paul, that looks like a kemmi book quote about elemental Aluminum.
Parking under power lines, near substation transformers, running a generator, washing with chlorinated water ?

I think I'd get a pocket knife out and scrape a few shavings for a metallurgy lab to check. HOPEFULLY it isn't just 1xxx series sheet that they just threw down as a floor, but knowing what it is could be helpful.




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Kesta
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2007-05-28 6:39 PM (#61354 - in reply to #61285)
Subject: RE: Floor pitting????


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Reg, Why do you no longer use shavings? When I first got my trailer, I didn't use shavings either, but it was such a mess when my mare urinated. Plus, she slipped on the mats because they were wet with urine. Since then I use shavings, to absorb, but hate the fact that they work their way under the mats!
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Reg
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2007-05-28 8:26 PM (#61360 - in reply to #61354)
Subject: RE: Floor pitting????


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Originally written by Kesta on 2007-05-28 6:39 PM

Reg, Why do you no longer use shavings? When I first got my trailer, I didn't use shavings either, but it was such a mess when my mare urinated. Plus, she slipped on the mats because they were wet with urine. Since then I use shavings, to absorb, but hate the fact that they work their way under the mats!


Right, I too hate the way the finer dust works it's way under the mats.

I'm going out on a limb here; Cheap mats are slippery when merely wet.
Slightly better mats can get slippery when wet and sh*tty.
The mats in my Jamco and 4-Star trailers have a grippy/spongy finish that doesn't seem to get slippery with any mix of urine and manure.
See if you can find whatever brand of mats it is that Jamco uses, I'll try to remember to get the brand name off mine the next time I take them out.

A couple of times a year I think and talk about caulking the seams between the mats, but back off when I consider the problem of getting them out for replacement when the time comes.
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bechack
Reg. Mar 2006
Posted 2007-05-28 10:15 PM (#61366 - in reply to #61285)
Subject: RE: Floor pitting?


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CushionEZ Clean is now in California....Protect your floor and save your back.

 

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PaulChristenson
Reg. Jan 2007
Posted 2007-05-29 1:22 AM (#61372 - in reply to #61338)
Subject: RE: Floor pitting????


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Originally written by Reg on 2007-05-28 7:31 AM

I dunno Paul, that looks like a kemmi book quote about elemental Aluminum. Parking under power lines, near substation transformers, running a generator, washing with chlorinated water ? I think I'd get a pocket knife out and scrape a few shavings for a metallurgy lab to check. HOPEFULLY it isn't just 1xxx series sheet that they just threw down as a floor, but knowing what it is could be helpful.

 And here I thought I would never use any of those college physics courses dealing with the structures of matter...

All you wanted to know about Corrosion on Aluminum alloys...

 

Effects of Composition and Microstructure on Corrosion

1xxx Wrought Alloys. Wrought aluminums of the 1xxx series conform to composition specifications that set maximum individual, combined, and total contents for several elements present as natural impurities in the smelter - grade or refined aluminum used to produce these products.

Corrosion resistance of all 1xxx compositions is very high, but under many conditions, it decreases slightly with increasing alloy content. Iron, silicon and copper are the elements present in the largest percentages. The copper and part of the silicon are in solid solution.

2xxx wrought alloys and 2xxx casting alloys, in which copper is the mayor alloying element, are less resistant to corrosion than alloys of other series, which contain much lower amounts of copper.

Alloys of this type were the first heat-treatable high-strength aluminum base materials and have been used for more than 75 years in structural applications, particularly in aircraft and aerospace applications. Much of the thin sheet made of these alloys is produced as an alclad composite, but thicker sheet and other products in many applications require no protective cladding.

Electrochemical effects on corrosion can be stronger in these alloys than in alloys of many other types because of two factors: greater change in electrode potential with variations in amount of copper in solid solution and, under some conditions, the presence of no uniformities in solid solution concentration. However, that general resistance to corrosion decreases with increasing copper content is not primarily attributable to these solid-solution or second phase solution-potential relationships, but to galvanic cells created by formation of minute copper particles or films deposited on the alloy surface as a result of corrosion.

2xxx Wrought Alloys Containing Lithium. Lithium additions decrease the density and increase the elastic modulus of aluminum alloys, making aluminum-lithium alloys good candidates for replacing the existing high-strength alloys, primarily in aerospace applications.

3xxx Wrought Alloys. Wrought alloys of the 3xxx series (aluminum-manganese and aluminum-manganese-magnesium) have very high resistance to corrosion. The manganese is present in the aluminum solid solution, in submicroscopic particles of precipitate and in larger particles of Al6(Mn,Fe) or Al12(Mn,Fe)3Si phases, both of which have solution potentials almost the same as that of the solid solution matrix.

4xxx Wrought Alloys and 3xx.x and 4xx.x Casting Alloys. Elemental silicon is present as second-phase constituent particles in wrought alloys of the 4xxx series, in brazing and welding alloys, and in casting alloys of 3xx.x and 4xx.x series.

Corrosion resistance of 3xx.x castings alloys is strongly affected by copper content, which can be as high as 5% in some compositions, and by impurity levels. Modifications of certain basics alloys have more restrictive limits on impurities, which benefit corrosion resistance and mechanical properties.

5xxx Wrought Alloys and 5xx.x Casting Alloys. Wrought Alloys of the 5xxx series (aluminum-magnesium-manganese, aluminum-magnesium-chromium, and aluminum-magnesium-manganese-chromium) and casting alloys of the 5xx.x series (aluminum-magnesium) have high resistance to corrosion, and this accounts in part for their use in a wide variety of building products and chemical-processing and food-handling eguipment, as well as applications involving exposure to seawater.

6xxx Wrought Alloys. Moderately high strength and very good resistance to corrosion make the heat-treatable wrought alloys of the 6xxx series (aluminum-magnesium-silicon) highly suitable in various structural, building, marine machinery, and process-equipment applications.

7xxx Wrought Alloys and 7xx.x casting alloys contain major additions of zinc along with magnesium or magnesium plus copper in combinations that develop various levels of strength. Those containing copper have the highest strengths and have been used as constructional materials, primarily in aircraft applications, for more than 40 years.

The copper-free alloys of the series have many desirable characteristics: moderate-to-high strength, excellent toughness, and good workability, formability, and weldability. Use of these copper-free alloys has increased in recent years and now includes automotive applications, structural members and armor plate for military vehicles, and components of other transportation equipment.

The 7xxx wrought and 7xx.x casting alloys, because of their zinc contents, are anodic to 1xxx wrought aluminums and to other aluminum alloys. They are among the aluminum alloys most susceptible to SCC.

Resistance to general corrosion of the copper-free wrought 7xxx alloys is good, approaching that of the wrought 3xxx, 5xxx and 6xxx alloys. The copper-containing alloys of the 7xxx series, such as 7049, 7050, 7075, and 7178 have lower resistance to general corrosion than those of the same series that do not contain copper. All 7xxx alloys are more resistant to general corrosion than 2xxx alloys, but less resistant than wrought alloys of other groups.

Although the copper in both wrought and cast alloys of the aluminum-zinc-magnesium-copper type reduces resistance to general corrosion, it is beneficial from the standpoint of resistance to SCC.

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Reg
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2007-05-29 5:18 AM (#61373 - in reply to #61285)
Subject: RE: Floor pitting????


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That is a nice summary of what comes off the mill, though I don't remember Lithium as being significant.
Net results in the HAZ need to be considered for structural use.
Fortunately sheet flooring isn't structurally critical, but lets see if I can dig up a corresponding reference for what happens when Al alloys are welded.

Ed Craig's pages provide a decent intro;
http://www.weldreality.com/aluminumalloys.htm
scroll down for the summary tables.

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mshal
Reg. Jan 2007
Posted 2007-05-29 3:01 PM (#61404 - in reply to #61297)
Subject: RE: Floor pitting????


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It seems you are right! Initial response was "too bad, too sad"! You should pull the matts six or seven times a year and wash under them????!!!!! I sure hope this is not the final response since a friend just bought one of these on MY recommendation!
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barntoys4mom
Reg. May 2007
Posted 2007-06-01 11:59 AM (#61609 - in reply to #61285)
Subject: RE: Floor pitting????


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Thanks for the posting! I just listed my '91 all alum. Sundowner for sale on this site, which by the way, after reading this, pulled the mats to find soild floors. I usually pull them and power wash as needed. But I will say that I have not been pulling the mats on the trailers I have been looking at. Sorry this was at your expense, but I'm sure you have helped others like myself along the way!
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