OK, time to start a nice civil discussion! My vet was snickering about his being soooo much better than someone elses', and the basis was the count of valves on the Cummins..... I still have NO clue which one he's got, however.Opinions, please?
Posted 2007-03-13 2:36 PM (#57050 - in reply to #57049) Subject: RE: 12 valve vs 24 valve Cummins
Regular
Posts: 62 Location: Western Wisconsin
The 12. They were used up until early in the model year 1998. 1998 was also the year they switched from a "club cab" to a "quad cab" with the extra doors. Believe me we looked long and hard to find an early '98 with the 12 under the hood. 'Course I'm a Chevy girl myself but my husband was a Cummin's diesel tech for many years so that's what we drive. They had a customer who liked his 12 so well that he bought a wrecked truck with a good motor and had it put in his newer body style truck. He hauls campers for a living and passed up the million mile mark a few years back. We still see the truck around, going strong.
Posted 2007-03-13 4:11 PM (#57051 - in reply to #57050) Subject: RE: 12 valve vs 24 valve Cummins
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 366 Location: Albany, Oregon
IMHO it ain't the stocker 12 vs 24 it is the computer needed to run a 24. The 12 is all mechanical, pump, injection timing etc....somthing most of us wrenchers can deal with and less to go wrong! They will run with no need of 12V. One damn good motor! Now if we want to talk power...there aint to much dissusion to be had the 24 will win every time!
Posted 2007-03-15 7:35 AM (#57094 - in reply to #57049) Subject: RE: 12 valve vs 24 valve Cummins
Veteran
Posts: 246 Location: Northern IN.
I've never owned a Dodge, I like my Fords, BUT some good friends that I used to gooseneck with ran the Cummins. Two of them had 12 valve engines and then went to the 24 valve. BOTH said that they wish they had their 12 valvers back, hands down. They were goosneckin' for a living and knew thier business... power, fuel mileage, maintenance, etc. Take it for what ya will, talk to y'all later...
Posted 2007-03-15 9:48 PM (#57132 - in reply to #57049) Subject: RE: 12 valve vs 24 valve Cummins
Elite Veteran
Posts: 671 Location: THE GREAT NORTHWET, OREGON(THE REAL GODS COUNTRY)
The 12's are great,another difference is the injector set up on the 24's
Then there was the injection pump issue.On the ISB with proper software you can do several test.But then you could do the same test by hand on the 12.
Posted 2007-03-16 9:42 AM (#57155 - in reply to #57049) Subject: RE: 12 valve vs 24 valve Cummins
Regular
Posts: 79
I've owned all three Cummins engines...The 12v Cummins were probably the most reliable engines ever put into a pickup truck. I know of two such trucks just in Ohio that have blown past the 1 million mile mark. I'm sure there are many more as well. They are easy to work on, easy to turn up, and get great fuel mileage. The hard part will be finding one that doesn't have a quarter of a million miles on it.The 1998.5-2002 24v Cummins were solid engines as well. Good fuel economy, easy maintenance... the problem with this engine was the weak lift pump and injection pump set up. There are aftermarket lift pumps but the weak link will still be the injection pump. Some people have 300,000 miles on it before it goes out... some people have 20,000 miles on it. Its a guessing game. But if its a stock engine it will be covered under warranty until 100,000 miles.The real gem is the 2003+ 24v Cummins. Not because the engine itself is any better (it actually gets less fuel mileage and is more expensive to work on), but because of the truck around it. Don't get me wrong, the engine is a 500,000+ mile engine but now its wrapped in a 500,000+ mile truck, too. The new body style Dodges are a vast improvement in fit and finish inside and out.
Posted 2007-03-16 4:38 PM (#57193 - in reply to #57049) Subject: RE: 12 valve vs 24 valve Cummins
New User
Posts: 4
Location: Sarles, ND
I have a 2000 dodge with the 24valve engine and unfortunately just had to put in my first Injection Pump.. It was a spendy deal, I'm approaching the 200,000 mile mark and you're right, it is all the lift pump issue. I've now added an auxiliary lift pump that mounts on the frame rail and the experts say that should eliminate the injector pump problem. They wanted to put a "changeover" pump which would install inside the fuel tank, but I really want to stay away from that "chevy" problem. I guess it's really the only hickup I've had with the pickup besides the regular maintainence so I guess I'm still happy with it and have no plans of trading it off.
Posted 2007-03-17 7:45 AM (#57218 - in reply to #57049) Subject: RE: 12 valve vs 24 valve Cummins
Regular
Posts: 79
I'm not so sure I buy into that theory, myself. And for two reasons: First, Bosch (the company that manufactured the VP44 injection pump) specifically stated that the VP44 was not designed to be run on ultra low sulphur diesel. Second, I put a FASS 150 lift pump on my truck a week after I got it and I still had a dead injection pump at 86,000 miles.
Despite the problems with the VP44, I still think Dodge puts out the best overall truck out there. I haven't driven anything but Dodge trucks since I was 16. I'm on my 4th one.
Posted 2007-03-17 8:13 AM (#57220 - in reply to #57049) Subject: RE: 12 valve vs 24 valve Cummins
Expert
Posts: 1205 Location: Danielsville Georgia
If fuel stavation was happening BEFORE the fass system to ANY extent that helped kill your VP44.It was already on its death bed be it a new FASS,Factory or Glacier diesel pusher pump being installed.
Posted 2007-03-17 9:13 AM (#57222 - in reply to #57220) Subject: RE: 12 valve vs 24 valve Cummins
Regular
Posts: 79
Originally written by hounddog on 2007-03-17 8:13 AM
If fuel stavation was happening BEFORE the fass system to ANY extent that helped kill your VP44.It was already on its death bed be it a new FASS,Factory or Glacier diesel pusher pump being installed.
Oh trust me, nobody knows that more than I do. Unfortunately, these trucks aren't equipped from the factory with adequate lift pumps so there is no guarantee that you won't damage the VP44 if you get a FASS on there right away like I did.
You can certainly minimize your chances of failure by following a few simple steps but nothing is fool proof.
Posted 2007-03-17 2:17 PM (#57231 - in reply to #57155) Subject: RE: 12 valve vs 24 valve Cummins
New User
Posts: 1
Location: West Covina, CA
My dad is on his 2nd Cummins. His 1st a 92 with 150k. You're correct. The whole truck didn't match the engine. He went thru 2 transmissions and the interior fell apart yet he takes care of everything. He was brokenhearted to let it go for a 06 Cummins. But oh boy does he now love it. He climbed a hill pulling a load like he was empty. The upgrades are great. I understand the transmission (Allison?) is superior to the old. The truck looks beefy and stalky all around. Quad Cab short bed Big Horn Edition. We looked at the Chevy diesel and it looks like a headache to work on, no room. He speaks from the million mile club of being a retired truck driver who loved his KW and Mack with the Cummins. Gracias!
Posted 2007-03-17 2:57 PM (#57233 - in reply to #57049) Subject: RE: 12 valve vs 24 valve Cummins
Expert
Posts: 1205 Location: Danielsville Georgia
Allison? In what? a Dodge? Nope.Allison is used by G.M. and D.C. in that year model is using a 48re which is part of the OLD family of Chrysler built autos just a little more modern then what was in your Dads 92.For 07.5 its now a 6 speed(two differant units) a D.C. built and in the Cab and Chassis is built by Asisn.But NO Allisions in any D.C. products.
Posted 2007-03-18 12:24 PM (#57267 - in reply to #57049) Subject: RE: 12 valve vs 24 valve Cummins
New User
Posts: 1
Location: Winnipeg Manitoba
Hi All
I am totally new to this website but I find it amazingly informational for someone who just bought her first horse trailer off this website :)
Okay, I am a girl but, I know my truck. I have a 2003 Dodge Ram 2500 (Laramie) with the 24 valve Cummins and before I bought my horse trailer to tow my 1600 lb Warmblood we used it and still use it to tow a 34 foot 12500lb fifth wheel trailer. And guess what, it works, no problem and going through Ontario last year we averaged 14 - 15mpg (25-27 on the straight going 100km or less when nothing behind it, cant beat that for mileage on a truck) and it didnt calf on the hills but as the drivers know, its how you approach. I know nothing of the 1998's 12 valve but I can tell you that I would not trade my truck for anything (accept the extra long back cab) . It has 155,000 km (yea yea, I am in Canada) and I bring it in regularly for servicing and it has needed nothing except your basic maintenance, in fact everytime I bring it in some mechanic wants to buy it because it looks new. The body is amazingly strong, I know because right now I have it North of the 54th parallel and brought it up on a seasonal ice road that has over 10 severe portages. I also drove in over 2ft of snow and slush to get around many stuck vehicles that could not go down the blown in road. And you cant beat that big mean muscle looking front end can you? I remember the first time I saw the front end on the new dodge and I said "honey, we have to get us one of them and he said, sure honey, in another life time...... well with that said, who cares if it has 12 valve or 24 valve, the difference isnt enough to go out and by an old truck (unless its about the money which is understandable) buy the new one and have fun, it wont disappoint you, trust me. If it does, your sentimental
Lookin forward to more discussions in the forum, its a fun read on a Sunday afternoon!
Posted 2007-03-19 10:36 AM (#57306 - in reply to #57233) Subject: RE: 12 valve vs 24 valve Cummins
Regular
Posts: 79
Originally written by hounddog on 2007-03-17 2:57 PM
Allison? In what? a Dodge? Nope.Allison is used by G.M. and D.C. in that year model is using a 48re which is part of the OLD family of Chrysler built autos just a little more modern then what was in your Dads 92.For 07.5 its now a 6 speed(two differant units) a D.C. built and in the Cab and Chassis is built by Asisn.But NO Allisions in any D.C. products.
Gotta be careful with that statement... I have two D/C products sitting right in front of my desk with Allisons in them... They are a lot bigger than a Dodge, and they say Freightliner on them, but D/C still owns them.
Everything else you said is correct. To clarify, though, the new automatic in the "regular" pickups (that is, not the cab & chassis) is the 68rfe built in house. The Aisin is in the cab & chassis trucks built, obviously, by Aisin.
12 valve vs 24 valve Cummins
) with the 24 valve Cummins and before I bought my horse trailer to tow my 1600 lb Warmblood we used it and still use it to tow a 34 foot 12500lb fifth wheel trailer. And guess what, it works, no problem and going through Ontario last year we averaged 14 - 15mpg (25-27 on the straight going 100km or less when nothing behind it, cant beat that for mileage on a truck) and it didnt calf on the hills but as the drivers know, its how you approach. I know nothing of the 1998's 12 valve but I can tell you that I would not trade my truck for anything (accept the extra long back cab
) . It has 155,000 km (yea yea, I am in Canada) and I bring it in regularly for servicing and it has needed nothing except your basic maintenance, in fact everytime I bring it in some mechanic wants to buy it because it looks new. The body is amazingly strong, I know because right now I have it North of the 54th parallel and brought it up on a seasonal ice road that has over 10 severe portages. I also drove in over 2ft of snow and slush to get around many stuck vehicles that could not go down the blown in road. And you cant beat that big mean muscle looking front end can you? I remember the first time I saw the front end on the new dodge and I said "honey, we have to get us one of them and he said, sure honey, in another life time...... well with that said, who cares if it has 12 valve or 24 valve, the difference isnt enough to go out and by an old truck (unless its about the money which is understandable) buy the new one and have fun, it wont disappoint you, trust me. If it does, your sentimental 