Posted 2012-02-10 8:25 AM (#140708) Subject: 4 horse
Member
Posts: 8
Hello looking for some opinions or maybe experiences of others.I currently have an older crew dually that i outfit with a large camper, and a 3horse trailer. Then add in water tanks the hay on the rack 2 dogs 2 adults 3 kids and all the crap that goes with that and I am pretty heavy.We camp and ride the mountains in wa state, you know burn up the tranny on the way in and smoke the brakes on the way out LOLI now find myself needing to haul 4 head instead of 3. My instinct tells me i should switch to a gooseneck for that many head. However the hassle, expense and less comfort than the camper holds me back. In the experiences out there would you put a 4 horse bumper pull behind a large camper??Thanks
Posted 2012-02-10 9:42 AM (#140714 - in reply to #140708) Subject: RE: 4 horse
Expert
Posts: 2453 Location: Northern Utah
I don't know that a 4H bumper pull is all that much worse than a 3H bumper pull. Especially if you can find some newer aluminum trailers. Your total weight might not be much different. Compare the weight and see just how much harder your truck would have to work.
I haul 4-5 horses most of the time. ( I have 5 daughters) Most are grown up now and only occassionally return home for a ride with dad. So more often than not, Its me with a friend or one daughter and several of her friends. And it has become increasingly rare to get my kids to go on any camping adventures because of their jobs, school and friends. So mostly for the kids its afternoon or saturday rides. Any real camping is me and friends.
I do use a GN trailer. I had a LQ a few years back in hopes of the extra creature comforts getting my wife to come along and keeping my daughters interested. But I quickly found it didn't make much difference, So I sold the LQ and replaced it with a Dressing room only trailer that I can rough it in. It's cheaper, lighter and I can squeeze that 5th horse in if I need an extra pack animal.
I find that I have more horses than riders now days, So I more often pack one or two extra horses and leave the trailer at the trail head and camp some where more remote. This allows me to get all my horses exercised, I don't have to worry about who will feed and care for any that I leave home. With the extra horses, I can bring in lots of extras and niceties for the camping. And I typically don't have to deal with somebody in the camp ground running their generator all night.
My advice is: Your kids are growing up, Do what you need to do to haul enough horses to keep them interested and enjoying what you do. Other wise the kids will find there own activities and you will be riding alone.
Posted 2012-02-10 9:43 AM (#140715 - in reply to #140708) Subject: RE: 4 horse
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 399 Location: Ottawa, Illinois 61350
Unless you have a diesel pusher motor coach with large brakes and exhaust brake, I think your asking for trouble. Some of our customers that have gone to the mountains with Class C motorhomes and bumper pulls, have some wild tales of brake and tranny failure, not enough power; and basically "the tale waggin' the dog" syndrome.
Posted 2012-02-10 10:04 AM (#140717 - in reply to #140708) Subject: RE: 4 horse
Expert
Posts: 5870 Location: western PA
A camper and BP trailer have some advantages over a GN trailer; more maneuverability, better ground clearance on rough roads and less of a chance for bottom damage. The camper can be used alone if you're sight seeing, and is easy to park in congested areas. If hard to access areas are your choice, this outfit may be the way to continue.
However, if your travels are open roads or occassional BLM paths, a GN has many advantages: less combined weight, much less hook up/loading times and efforts, more towing stability, less wind interreaction, better mileage, less bed weight on the truck and all your gear is in one place.
A 4H BP trailer is large and long, and when fully loaded, will have a high combined weight. If your camper is much longer than your bed, you may need a hitch or tongue extension, which adds even more weight to an over loaded rear axle and suspension. When you add this to your substantial camper's toll, your truck may be severely taxed and incapable of performing safetly.
Over the years we've owned several camper/trailer rigs, and now own GN trailers. With a Gn you give up the ease of the stand alone camper. Some people do use GNs occasionally only for camping, but they end up dragging along many extra feet of space that isn't being used. Parking is more difficult and frequently you will be restricted to only using designated camping areas with the tag alongs.
What you gain with a GN is towing stability and ease, a truck that isn't overloaded in the rear, and better fuel economy. Your overall weights will be less, and your truck will have a much easier go. The LQs are available in many lengths, the longer ones may over burden your truck. Unlike your heavy camper, the trailer weights are distributed between the truck and the trailer axles, with only about 25%- 35% of the total weigh being on your truck.
You may end up with less living amenity space, in exchange for safer trips and less mechanical problems. We sold our last camper several years ago, and have completely switched to the LQ trailers, whilst not looking back at all. The convenience and ease of towing/loading is so much easier with just one unit with which to maintain. I can easily hook up by myself in a few minutes. With a camper and trailer, this process took two people and almost half an hour. Once I almost dumped a camper when I hit one of the jacks, when backing underneath. I'm greateful those days are past.
Posted 2012-02-10 10:22 AM (#140721 - in reply to #140708) Subject: RE: 4 horse
Member
Posts: 8
I went to a camper 3 horse bumper for all the reasons listed. I went to plces with poor roads and tight turn a rounds and i still do. Last spring i headed to a new trailhead and had to backout 2 miles as there was no turnaround. I built a real hitch extension and use weight distribution bars. I also picked the camper as i could use it for other things besides horses. To handle all this i put a dually axle under my truck built a flatbed added airbags built an exhaust brake etc etc. My poor 97 has 300k on it now and i am due for a new truck. Or new to me truckMy biggest concern is the length of a 4 horse and the cost of a LQ or weekender. I think my hitch extension is 30 which puts the trailer even farther to the rear. Mostly concerned about stability for the horses themselves and the swaying of the trailer. I already know i will be the last one over the pass and replacing cracked brake rotors.Keeping all of it is not a financial option which is why i am seeking the input.
Posted 2012-02-10 1:22 PM (#140726 - in reply to #140708) Subject: RE: 4 horse
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 373 Location: Texas
What size camper do you have?
I have a 9.5', F350 dually 4x4, Trails west 3H with mangers and large tack. Loaded with 100 gallons of water in trailer, 1 horse, 2 bales f hay, and all my stuff, pluse camper loaded for the weekend. Weight was 19,200.
I had a 4H Circle J before that, and loaded with 3 horses and all my stuff, close to above, I was at 19,800.
I loved my 4H Circle J. Pulled nice, and was not as heavy as current trailer. I have load leveler hitch, air bags on truck, expended hitch. But, note, 9.5' camper, so I'm not having to do the super long hitch for a bigger camper. I'd not pull a trailer that big with a larger camper.
You need to weigh out the benefits of a camper, if you go places without horses, if it is paid off, if you take it on and off truck or not etc. vs. changing the whole set up. I love the truck camper and trailer for getting in to places and parked many with LQ's can't. So where you go, and what you do makes a difference too
Posted 2012-02-10 8:10 PM (#140745 - in reply to #140726) Subject: RE: 4 horse
Member
Posts: 8
My camper is a Lance and is 10'9". You say you pulled a 4 horse with 3 horse, do you think the extra 1000 lbs of a fourth horse would have changed your opinion?I like the ability to take the camper alone and I used it a couple times that way last year. I also liked being more maneuverable. However a 4 horse bumper pull may just kill that advantage. One positive is I own everything I have and i would be surprised if i can find a 4 horse weekender for under 15 k
Posted 2012-02-10 11:26 PM (#140753 - in reply to #140708) Subject: RE: 4 horse
Expert
Posts: 5870 Location: western PA
With a 30" hitch extension, and adding another additional 1000#s to it, you're inviting an accident waiting to happen. You will further decrease your truck's stability, and overweight its suspension. In an emergency braking situation, the hitch extension will compound the tail wagging the dog affect.
Keep the camper and use it alone. Buy a used GN with LQ. They're out there in that price range. Consider your family's safety first. You may well endanger it with a larger BP trailer.
Posted 2012-02-10 11:30 PM (#140754 - in reply to #140708) Subject: RE: 4 horse
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 373 Location: Texas
a 10'9 camper is personally beyond what I'd put a 4 horse trailer behind, just due to the hitch set up. I know some can explain it better than I can, but I thought there was something as to the distance of the rear axle of the truck, vs the trailer axles, and also the location of the "pivot" point, AKA the hitch/ball. That is getting to be a really long extension, or one of the hitches that is actually on the camper.
All that being said, there are lighter trailers. My 4 horse Circle J was much lighter than the 3 horse trails west with mangers. So the weight is something to consider, but for me, it is the length that also needs to be thought out. Depending on tackroom style and size, you can actually find a 4 horse that is not as long. Rear tacks would help.
If you only go a couple or a few times without the horse trailer, consider if you could take an LQ trailer as your camping unit instead, leaving horses behind.
I do understand what you are going thru with this possible change. Out camper is getting pretty tired, and we are trying to decide if it is time for an LQ and if it would fit our needs
Posted 2012-02-13 8:02 AM (#140848 - in reply to #140708) Subject: RE: 4 horse
Member
Posts: 8
thanks for the input. I think I really need a gooseneck. I think a weekender package would be fine as the kinds usually sleep in the tent. I can always use the back of the trailer for the rest of the camping stuff like the kitchen etc, Now its just coming up with the cash.
Posted 2012-02-15 8:35 AM (#140994 - in reply to #140708) Subject: RE: 4 horse
Member
Posts: 8
True enough. However I dont have the income to waste money in that fashionI have been fabricating since high school. Own an equipment sales and repair shop and have fabricated everything from tractor rollbars, hay racks excavator thumbs buckets veh hitches etc etc.Sorry but I am not one who plays the "liability game" or has excess money to waste. Obviously many people like yourself do.
Posted 2012-02-15 10:54 AM (#140999 - in reply to #140708) Subject: RE: 4 horse
Regular
Posts: 74 Location: Dublin Ga
We sold our 5th whell and had a livng quarters added to our sundowner it was a 4 horse now a 3 horse with seperate toilet and shower microwave and refer. no cook top i prefer too cook outside if weather bad i coook in the back where the horses are. but we use it for all of our xcamping my wifes other hobby is skydiving and we pull the trailer to airports and plug up just like a camper, I also use it for deer season and my ATV fits nicely in the back. i basically use mine as a toy hauler when not horse camping.