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Horsebox Axle placement

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Chis de Beer
Reg. Apr 2009
Posted 2009-04-23 1:40 PM (#103827)
Subject: Horsebox Axle placement


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Posts: 4

Location: Pretoria, South Africa
The horsebox that we build is 5.269m long and 1.676m wide. We load two horses of approxamately 700Kg each. In other words 1.4 tons at the back of the horsebox. The space from the back of the horsebox to the front feet of the horses is 2m. The rest of the 3.269m is the tackroom with approxamatly 250kg weight loaded into it. The question is, where do I place the two rubber suspension axles so that it stays balanced. See diagram.
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jdzaharia
Reg. Apr 2006
Posted 2009-04-23 3:02 PM (#103837 - in reply to #103827)
Subject: RE: Horsebox Axle placement



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It's been a while since I worked a statics problem in metric.

First, welcome to the forum.

Second, my answer:  Center the two axles 1.528 metres forward of the rear of the trailer.

Third, assumptions I made:

1. The horses have 60% of their weight on their front feet and 40% on their rear.

2. The load from their rear feet is at the back of the trailer.  This is conservative, but the actual placement of their feet will only give you slightly more tongue weight, which isn't a bad thing.

3. The empty weight of the trailer is 1.5 tonnes, centered on the box, not including the .75 m tongue.  (2.26 m in front of the rear of the trailer.)  This is conservative, but the tongue weight is negligible.

4. The weight in the tack room is evenly distributed.  Personally, 250 kg seems light to me, but more weight in the center of the tack room will add its weight approx 60%/40% to the tongue/axles, respectively.  No big deal.

5. The tongue carries 10% of the trailer's loaded weight.  With conservative assumptions above, it will be slightly higher.  No big deal.  320 kg = 700 lb +/- seems okay.

Fourth, I checked to make sure the front axle is not forward of the midpoint of the box, not including the tongue.  This is a check for pulling the trailer empty.  If the front axle is in front of the balance point of the trailer, the tongue weight may not be sufficient.  This is a conservative check, because we are neglecting the minor weight of the tongue itself.  Midpoint of box is 2.26 m forward of the rear; midpoint of axles is 1.528 m forward.  2.26-1.528=.732  If .732 is less than half the axle spacing, your okay.

Since, it appears you like pictures, I'll draw one and post it soon.

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jdzaharia
Reg. Apr 2006
Posted 2009-04-23 3:14 PM (#103838 - in reply to #103827)
Subject: RE: Horsebox Axle placement



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Chis de Beer
Reg. Apr 2009
Posted 2009-04-23 11:15 PM (#103861 - in reply to #103838)
Subject: RE: Horsebox Axle placement


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Posts: 4

Location: Pretoria, South Africa
WOW this is amazing!  Before I went to bed last night I posted my problem.  I woke up five o'clock this morning and rushed to my computer to see if anybody responded.  In the back of my head I knew it is far fetched to expect a response so fast.  I was so surprised and unbelievably thankfull when I saw there is a response.  I am going to go through the response now and will most probably ask a few more questions (if it is okay with you guys) Thanks once again and please know that guys like you that are prepared to help others out without expecting something in return are very very special people.
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jdzaharia
Reg. Apr 2006
Posted 2009-04-24 8:54 AM (#103869 - in reply to #103861)
Subject: RE: Horsebox Axle placement



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Ask away. That's the purpose of this board. Not many of us are experts on much, but collectively, I think this forum is a pretty good resource. And definitely use resources and experts outside of this forum. Maybe this should be the disclaimer statement at the top of every thread: "You should additionally seek the services of a professional." Dave Ramsey plays something like that on his radio program.
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haul_n_horses
Reg. Jul 2004
Posted 2009-04-24 9:00 AM (#103870 - in reply to #103838)
Subject: RE: Horsebox Axle placement



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Nice work jdzaharia, with the 10% tongue weight when loaded equates back to 20% tongue weight when completly unloaded.  This 20% unloaded is still only 290kg (640lbs.).  This will make for a good traveling trailer whether it is loaded or unloaded.  However your tongue weights will be a little lower than calculated due to the weight of a (horse) trailer is not in the center of the trailer seeing that the rubber mats, wall lining, body divider, and axles are all in the back.  Plus at this point your axles will still be safely behind the center of gravity on your trailer.  So for what I am worth I agree with jdzaharia and believe this would make for a safe and good pulling trailer.

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retento
Reg. Aug 2004
Posted 2009-04-24 9:04 AM (#103871 - in reply to #103827)
Subject: RE: Horsebox Axle placement


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That's some fine drawing and deciphering.... When I looked at the first drawing the first thing come to my mind was, place the front axle directly under the horses front feet and work my way back, leaving a minimum of 6" between the tread of the front and rear tire at their closest point.

 

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Chis de Beer
Reg. Apr 2009
Posted 2009-04-24 9:20 AM (#103872 - in reply to #103827)
Subject: RE: Horsebox Axle placement


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Posts: 4

Location: Pretoria, South Africa
I thank everybody for their inputs. I just want to make sure that every thing is clear. The total weight of the horsebox when there is nothing loaded into it is 1500Kg. Then we load two 700Kg horses into it which totals to 1400kg and we also load equipment and tack that weighs 250kg. So horsebox weight 1500kg plus load of 1650kg totals to 3150kg (trailer and load) Mabey this makes a difference to tha calculations? Regards Chris.
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retento
Reg. Aug 2004
Posted 2009-04-24 9:25 AM (#103873 - in reply to #103827)
Subject: RE: Horsebox Axle placement


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Chris... We love pictures!! So if you were to get a chance to snap a few shots while your work is in progress, we would be mighty obliged and appreciative!!

 Do you know our friend NICK, from East London, South Africa?


 



Edited by retento 2009-04-24 9:28 AM
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haul_n_horses
Reg. Jul 2004
Posted 2009-04-24 9:37 AM (#103876 - in reply to #103872)
Subject: RE: Horsebox Axle placement



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Chis de Beer - The total weight of 3,150kg is what was used for the calculations.  Plus, 6" between the two tires would not look right.  The average is 3" to 3.5" (7.6cm to 8.89cm)  With this size of trailer you can have 215/75R15 tires with 3" to 3.5" between them and keep it in a 68" (172cm) fender.

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jdzaharia
Reg. Apr 2006
Posted 2009-04-24 9:46 AM (#103877 - in reply to #103872)
Subject: RE: Horsebox Axle placement



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Originally written by Chis de Beer on 2009-04-24 9:20 AM

The total weight of the horsebox when there is nothing loaded into it is 1500Kg. Then we load two 700Kg horses into it which totals to 1400kg and we also load equipment and tack that weighs 250kg. So horsebox weight 1500kg plus load of 1650kg totals to 3150kg (trailer and load) Mabey this makes a difference to tha calculations? Regards Chris.

Those are the exact numbers I assumed and used in my calculations.  So, no difference there.  But, as haul_n_horses pointed out, the 1500 kg of empty weight may not be exactly centered on the box as I assumed.  Also, haul_n_horses checked another item that I hadn't included in my original post--the tongue weight with an empty trailer.

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retento
Reg. Aug 2004
Posted 2009-04-24 11:57 AM (#103884 - in reply to #103876)
Subject: RE: Horsebox Axle placement


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Originally written by haul_n_horses on 2009-04-24 10:37 AM

Chis de Beer - The total weight of 3,150kg is what was used for the calculations.  Plus, 6" between the two tires would not look right.  The average is 3" to 3.5" (7.6cm to 8.89cm)  With this size of trailer you can have 215/75R15 tires with 3" to 3.5" between them and keep it in a 68" (172cm) fender.

 haul_n_horses ... I'm no Engineer, nor do I build and or sell horse trailers,but... I got six assorted tandem axle trailer on the farm and non of the tires are any closer that 6"... What don't look right about this axle placement below?? That's probably more than 6". Just because American Spirit doesn't build them like the ones pictured below, doesn't make it wrong... Does it?

<script> window.setTimeout("watermark()",50);  

<script> window.setTimeout("watermark()",50);  

<script> window.setTimeout("watermark()",50);  

<script> window.setTimeout("watermark()",50);  

<script> window.setTimeout("watermark()",50);  

 

 

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Chis de Beer
Reg. Apr 2009
Posted 2009-04-24 12:31 PM (#103889 - in reply to #103873)
Subject: RE: Horsebox Axle placement


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Posts: 4

Location: Pretoria, South Africa
I will most certainly post some pictures.  We've built the chassis but strenghtening it worries me.  It's now 8:30pm so I will take some pictures tommorow so that you guys can have a look and maybe give some advise. Regards Chris
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haul_n_horses
Reg. Jul 2004
Posted 2009-04-24 12:49 PM (#103890 - in reply to #103884)
Subject: RE: Horsebox Axle placement



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Location: Indiana

retento - as a discaimer - I am no longer, nor have I been for a year now, any part of the American Spirit association.  But, yes as your picture shows you can do 6" plus on smaller trailers with one of the two following situations: 215/75R15 or similuar tire in a 72" fender or a smaller tire in a 68" fender.  But it is my personal opionion that it looks odd (not wrong just odd).

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cleve
Reg. Aug 2007
Posted 2009-04-24 1:27 PM (#103892 - in reply to #103827)
Subject: RE: Horsebox Axle placement


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Posts: 4

Location: Texas

Try this link.  We built a trailer using this method of figuring where to put the axels and it pulls great.

http://www.trailerplans.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=40&Itemid=29

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jdzaharia
Reg. Apr 2006
Posted 2009-04-24 1:51 PM (#103895 - in reply to #103892)
Subject: RE: Horsebox Axle placement



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On the distance between the two axles, I would think that with rubber torsion axles I would want them as close together as possible.  That is because they work independently, unlike the shackled spring axles.  The further the rubber axles are apart, the more independent they are, and the more critical the hitch height is.

 

Originally written by cleve on 2009-04-24 1:27 PM

Try this link.  We built a trailer using this method of figuring where to put the axels and it pulls great.

http://www.trailerplans.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=40&Itemid=29

The last sentence is the important part: 

This method should only be used if you will be hauling evenly distributed loads.

This method looks more well-suited towards cargo trailers with shackled spring axles.  In the case that the original poster brought up, the load is definitely NOT distributed evenly.

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